Thread: Stanley Bench Planes Replacement Blade Bulk Order

I'm with DJ et al.

I want the 3.5 mm chisels for fine work, if I want to belt the crap out of a chisel, I will use the old faithful can't be broken plastic handled one I have currently jammed under one slightly shorted leg on my lathe bench to stop the wobble.

The thought occurs to me that if someone wants to come into a discussion late in the piece and start telling others how to run their group ordering scheme, then they are welcome to take their bat and ball to start another thread where they are willing to devote what must be an immense total number of hours, cost and effort to organising their own bulk scheme for chisels of a dimension that can easily be purchased from any number of existing makers who have a substantial on-line presence, not to mention the staff and tooling facilities to do this type of manufacturing.

I am not about to make TS's life any harder or more complicated than he has already made it, that is his perogative and his alone........

Hi Helmut,

If it makes life easier I am happy to postpone the blades for the wooden planes.

Regards

Brendan

Originally Posted by Ray153

The thought occurs to me.. *snip* ..his perogative and his alone........

Originally Posted by DJ's Timber

If they're useless to you then don't order them, but let the rest of us make our own mind up as to if we want 6 or 10, its as simple as that

Well my thinking is that if wider chisels require more force to push them through timber then the amount of force needed on (for example: ) a 40mm wide might be too much and bend the chisel. There's a good chance I'm wrong though. I'll ask someone in the know (Derek and David Charlesworth)

Please note that I'm not trying to aggravate anyone here. Helmut is doing a ripper of a job as he has done on the other group orders.

Originally Posted by funkychicken

40mm wide might be too much and bend the chisel.

That would depend on how much material you are trying to remove in one pass.
Parers for me are all about fine tuning a fit, generally trying to take away a minimal amount of material at a time while keeping things straight.
A 40mm wide parer will be rarely used at my bench but I can foresee times when I'll be glad it was there.

I have occasionally found myself using a bare bench plane blade as one would a parer simply because the extra width helps me keep my edges clean.

hard on the fingers though.

the way I figure it.. even if the whole batch of chisels is a balls up (unlikely) I have a whole bunch of good steel to use in my grooving planes and maybe a mini moulder or 3, I have a few tiny old shop made moulders made with recycled carving chisels that I have always thought would be fun to make.

one can never have enough random bits of steel ready to take an edge lying around

You have a point Slow6. My reasoning is based on if you're using the full width of the chisel not just part of it.

I vote we let helmut do whatever takes his fancy and just support him.
And I think we've given Funky enough stick, he obviously wasn't trying to antagonise anyone.
In fact all those who said he should go home (or elsewhere) ought to buy one of his marking knives to compensate for the humiliation and shame you've caused him. (usual disclaimer, no affiliation what so ever with Funky, other than he is a fellow forumite and therefore worthy of respect.)

Originally Posted by Caliban

In act all those who said he should go home (or elsewhere) ought to buy one of his marking knives to compensate for the humiliation and shame you've caused him.

Gotta agree with that

I have a reply from Derek who says:

Hi Andrew

A pairing chisel is traditionally thin. The Blue Spruce ones I have are 1/8" (3mm) thick. So the ones you plan are in the same range.

The argument you have is a false one since paring chisels should not be forced through timber - they should be pushed, and the technique used is to take fine shavings. If they require force, then you are attempting to take too thick a shaving. If you need to use force, then use a chisel that is designed to be hit with a mallet.

The longer the blade, the greater the stress on the steel. Use shorter blades if you are concerned about strength. Check out the Blue Spruce chisels in this regard.

Regards from Perth

Derek

So I'm thinking the wider ones might be okay if They're only used to take a very thin shaving and not used on ridiculously hard timbers like gidgee.

Just out of curiosity, what are you all going to be using the full length of the chisels for?

Hi Helmut

Looks like I've just picked up a #8 ,

So if possible I'd like to add a #8 blade and cap iron to my order.

Been following the comments on chisels. I understand where some of the questions are coming from, but am sure no offense was meant. As someone said, if you want chisels you can whack with a mallet, go buy something else. I'm sure these will be excellent for the intended purpose.

Hi TS, (legend of bulk orders),

If possible, might I add my name to the list of Sheet 2 Chisels, for a Set of 6+1 please. The 3.5mm is just right for paring to me. Thanks.

If we don't get enough participants for Sheet 2 to establish an order then no probelm. Bravo to you for a mammoth effort for all of us.

Thanks again.
Cheers,
Pops

we should be just happy that we r getting these chisels

I am back from Canberra.

I called John at Rippon today and had another chat.

John spoke with Oppy heat treatment and they are not setup to deal with such thin pieces of steel. Because the chisels and plane blades are so thin special care must be taken to reduce warping of the steel during heat treatment, when we are talking warping we are talking about 0.3 mm or less over the total surface. Talking with John he will make the plane blades is slightly curved end to end just like a Paul Williams does with his Academy Saw plane blades this in effect helps to eliminate chatter where clamped.

In regards to the heat treatment another mob was recommend by Oppy called Surface Technology. These guys have what is called a salt bath furnace up at Maryborough. This is where the steel is dipped into the bath vertically into a molten bath of pure salt.

This in effect gives the same effect as a laminated plane blade, with the front leading cutting edge being harder and the tang or tail end being softer but far less brittle. I also gives a better heat treat, then a vacuum furnace with less de-carbonization of the steel.

As for price of Rippon has given $20 for the Milling and Grinding for Stanley Plane Blades. $25 for the Milling and Grinding for Chisels (these will have their bevels ground on three faces, making it just like the blue spruce chisels), and $7 for the Milling and Tapping of Cap Irons. This is only the cost of the Milling and Grinding. This is higher then hoped for however due to the fiddle nature of the job, it is understandable. The laser cutting will be about $3 per per blade, chisel or cap iron. The price of the heat treating has not been confirmed as Dave at Surface Technology is looking at the job and will quote us later in the week.

*EDIT* I forgot the cost of the steel. Which is $7.45 per plane blade and $5.12 per chisel.

I added the costing' to the spreadsheet. It makes everything less confusing.

See attached image (from the PDF) for price breakdown.

Attachment 89669

The per item cost for heat treating would be no more then $2 to $4 each. As the going rate is about $50 per kg of steel.

The ETA for this project has been pushed out to around February as xmas is bearing down on us.

If you wish to alter your order in light of these adjustments in price PM me.

Just incase you were wondering: The material cost of a narrow blade or chisel will be less then a wider blade or chisel. However the thinner blade or chisel need more attention in milling, grinding and heat treatment so they cost more to make. So I work on averages, to simplify the costing, and it should all work out in the wash in terms of cost.

Originally Posted by thumbsucker

This bring the total cost per item to $23 for a Stanley Plane blade plus the cost of heat treating and GST. $28 per Chisel plus the cost of heat treating and GST and $11 for the lever cap plus GST. This is well over half the cost of a comparable blade by any other commercial plane blade manufacture and 1/3 the cost of a comparable commercial chisel.

The per item cost for heat treating would be no more then $2 to $4 each. As the going rate is about $50 per kg of steel.

G'day TS,

The last time I checked the Academy Saw replacement blade for no. 4/5 is at $108 each. And that's just the blade, no cap iron.

Based on what you've mentioned, I calculated conservatively, 1 Stanley blade without cap iron to be $23 + 4 + GST = $29.70. At about $30 for a M2 HSS blade, comparing apples to apples, I think we are still way ahead. And I ordered 4 Stanley blades, which would cost me about $120. Or I can get 1 Academy Saw blade.

With the cap iron, it'll be a little less than $45 for each set.

Or was my calculation out of whack here?

As for the M2 HSS chisels, I am not sure how many paring chisel makers using M2 HSS. I have nothing to compare against this situation, but I think the cost of our (more like yours) chisels are pretty darn good value.

This is based on what I think.

Cheers

GUNN

Originally Posted by dynoforce

Or was my calculation out of whack here?

They are correct. As for chisels, a Blue Spruce will set you back $100.98 AUD each, and a LN will set you back $104 each, and Harold and Saxon Chisel will set you back $120 each. a cheap nasty Chinese chisel from much poorer and unknown steel will set you back about $45 from bunnings but you do not get the same size range but you get a plastic handle. The cheapest chisels I have seen are a set of no name made in China set of 5 for $15 in a $2 shop, they would be good for digging nails out timber.

On the other-side for the extra $75 - $95 (the cost of a BS, LN or HS - minus the cost of our chisel) you get a wooden handle with your chisels and a brand name. Also for the extra $75 - $95 a chisel sharp out of the box. It will take you 10 minutes to turn a handle, and drill the hole and 3 - 5 minute to sharpen the chisel.

If your hourly rate is less then $300 to $380 (four times $75 - $95) these chisels will be well worth it.