Thread: Starting out buying hand tools - to restore - or new

Originally Posted by iandrewmartin

Luke;
Thanks for the info. One of the things I am really interested in is to learn saw sharpening. I figure that if I can restore the springiness of a relay contact I can learn to restore and sharpen saws. I am already on the hunt for my first stanley plane, a #4 smoothing plane. Chisels I am going to purchase new for the moment and have my eye on a set of 6 from Faithfull.

I promise I'll ask for help. DOn't worry about that. Talk to you later.

Saw sharping one off my pet loves.
But be warned it's a very mysterious and black art form.Best done under a full moon.(You should have been on the forum a few years back. I vaguely remember a Saw sharping class run in Ballarat, tho my memory is a little vague now on that [emoji41]).

Cheers Matt.

Originally Posted by iandrewmartin

D.W.;
THanks for adding to the conversation. So far as making I'm looking to initially make about 15 bookshelves. They'll be simple, and straightforward to get all of our books out of boxes.
I've just been refurbing a 1950s era bookcase for my son. Final sanding being done now. Paint and finish in the next couple of weeks.

Then there'll be two workbenches (Paul Sellers has just done a 9 part video series about this subject) my son and I are intending to build one of these each.

Then there'll be a new dining table, most likely in 2019, and then we'll see what we make from there. I do have some hobby related items that I'd like to build also (2019 likely), including a travelling model making case; a tool case/chest for my yet to be collected tools.

Well, you'll definitely have use for a long plane. Jack, Jointer, Smoother a couple of decent saws and decent chisels are a good place to start. If you're building shelving and benches, bench planes and larger saws are the place to start (carpenter saws, not absurd large tenon saws that became popular a couple of years ago but are sort of in between useful sizes that you more typically see).

I have done both (buy and refurbish and buy new), but haven't found much new that wasn't boutique that's worth consideration - except chisels. There are a lot of good chisel options, and they can be die forged cheaply from drill rod, and hardened and tempered on a moving line.

The long plane would still be where I'd spend my money on premium if I was to do that. You can always go back to a standard stanley jointer or a wooden plane later if your timber tolerates wooden planes (if you're working 2500 hardness woods all the time, you'll be working thinner shavings and a metal plane with an adjuster is easier to adjust in those ranges - at least in heavy work). I wouldn't buy any intolerably expensive saws. Saws in general don't get much better than the LN/LV level, and there won't be any difference in your work quality if you forgo that level and buy vintage back saws.

If you're going to rip wood by hand, you'll need a true rip saw or two (western carpenter saw style) - there is no substitute, and the cost should be the same or less than subpar soft modern saws, and much less than high-end custom made carpenter saws. In the large saws, nobody has made anything that surpasses disston's professional saws.

When buying used vintage, do what you can to buy tools that were made in their golden eras (when they could command reasonable coin). For example, the circular saw ended the run for carpenter saws quite quickly around 1935. Saws were slowly going downhill up to that point, but then took a nosedive. Anything before that is generally pretty good, because it would've been used almost entirely by professionals, and the trades wouldn't have tolerated crap.

Hi Andrew

I have a slightly different view than the others.

FIRST, I think everyone should have one aspirational tool - perhaps something made by Terry Gordon, Chris Vesper, Colen Clenton, or Philip Marcou - something that you know is as good as it gets. So you can see, feel and experience a top class tool, and think "this is what all tools would be like, if they could"!

SECOND, as Ian says, you really need access to the knowledge encapsulated by "sharp", "tuned", "properly set-up". This Forum will give you as much assistance as possible, but it is a moving target. My definition of sharp seems to change about every six months, and recently I watched a sushi chef "showing off" by cutting a ripe tomato into 0.5 mm slices at speed. His definition of sharp is not on the same page as mine! But refurbishing classic tools is as good away as any to start building that knowledge.

THIRD: learn the short cuts. If a hand plane has a plastic handle it is probably crap and not worth restoring. Pre WW2 Stanley was usually excellent but on V-Day their quality started plumetting with very little good stuff made in the last 50 years.

FOURTH: practice, practice, practice, ...talk, talk, talk, ...


Cheers

Graeme

When I first started out I had a lucky break with a job lot of good quality old tools in a local boot sale, they did require however a lot of refurbishing.

Although it seemed that I was spending more time on fixing tools than actual woodworking during the first year I have to say that it was worth it as the skills and practical knowledge will stand me in good stead for life and I believe I understand the tools better than If I just bought new.

Not to mention the pleasure and satisfaction of using a chisel that one has refurbished, even if the bevel is not perfect and the cutting edge less than scary sharp!!!

Yvan

Originally Posted by iandrewmartin

Luke;
Thanks for the info. One of the things I am really interested in is to learn saw sharpening. I figure that if I can restore the springiness of a relay contact I can learn to restore and sharpen saws. I am already on the hunt for my first stanley plane, a #4 smoothing plane. Chisels I am going to purchase new for the moment and have my eye on a set of 6 from Faithfull.

I promise I'll ask for help. DOn't worry about that. Talk to you later.

Andy; when you have a spare 2 1/4hrs, the following is an excellent tutorial into saw sharpening. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-_MF2Mnxwc

Originally Posted by Anotherplane

Although it seemed that I was spending more time on fixing tools than actual woodworking during the first year...

I'm more than happy to do a little woodworking and a lot of learning during the first year. Learning the tools to my mind is the core of producing good work. Understanding how a tool produces is for me is the key to understanding how to make the tool produce its best output. I suppose it is more about the journey for me than the destination.

Originally Posted by planemaker

Andy; when you have a spare 2 1/4hrs, the following is an excellent tutorial into saw sharpening. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-_MF2Mnxwc

Thanks for the link. I'll download that tonight and watch it later tomorrow when I have a chance to do so. Thanks for the link

Andrew; the following is what can be achieved when you gain some confidence into saw sharpening. Its a 6ppi hand saw. The last 2 inches of saw teeth had been removed by a previous owner.

Included within the refurbishment was reshaping the handle, and filing the saw teeth from rip to a crosscut pattern.

Stewie;








the end result;

The saw came up very well Stewie. It looks like it could be a Disston D-8, but it originally had a Warranted Superior medallion. Now it has something different but still doesn't look quite like Disston. I can't really tell from the pic.

Regards
Paul

The saw is looking great Stewie.
What did you use on the handle seems quite darker.

Cheers Matt

Hi Paul; well spotted. The original WS medallion was seized in tight and didn't survive the process of being drilled out. Its replacement was chosen on a match in outer diameter.

Matt; I used a high concentration of Van Dyke Crystals. http://www.thewoodworks.com.au/shop/...an-dyke-detail

If you have the time, inclination and necessary skills buying older tools for restoration can be an option. But beware of "Frankentools" mismatched bits cobbled into something that looks the part but will never be right or work properly. Be selective and only buy tools that are in better than average condition. Ask questions such as are the castings sound and free from cracks or pitting, any cracks or splits in the handles and knobs, is the plane complete. The same with chisels there are many sellers fitting handles to anything that looks like it was once a chisel and asking ridiculous prices. Also many use the word Berg in the description of an Eskilstunas made chisel in the hope of conning the buyer into paying EA Berg prices for a less desirable chisel. This path means a lot of work and no guarantee that the final tool will be worth it. An alternative is the large range of Chinese made hand planes and chisels now available for little money. Also I have recently bought some Czechoslovakian made Narex chisels and am very impressed with the finish and the edge holding of the steel. They were around $25 each which is probably less than you will pay for a good second hand chisel that may be pitted or cracked or take hours to restore. Check out some reviews on youtube they can be a great help. All the best which ever way you go.