Thread: Table or Rule Joint Planes

Ive always known it and read about it as a Rule Joint Luke and never noticed it being Dumbed down . Is this in later publications which I may have missed ? My Book buying slowed about ten years ago . And I also used to buy a lot of older books as well . Probably why I missed it ? If its just the sellers description then i suppose that happens a bit . Id understand what table joint plane meant if a picture were with it . That name could apply to other table joints I suppose .

You could do it by hand with one hollow that has a same or slightly less radius than what your finished one has to be ,and even a rebate plane for the male side, finishing with a scraper and sand paper. A pair of matched rule joint planes will have it all sorted out of course , being an exact male and female quadrant for a radius that suits the top thickness. The tops you see them on are usually either the dinning size thickness of 3/4 " or the English Pembroke table thickness of 5/8 I think ? and the radius for these are only a part of that thickness. Getting an old pair is one thing but getting an old pair that are true and straight that dont need changing to get them working is the risk of buying on line . I think you can get away with adjusting a round or hollow to get it working in this way more than you could with a Rule joint plane.

I do all my rule joints by hand , that's both my hands, pushing the top across the router table . Even though I think I do have some rule joint planes somewhere in my plane stash . If I spot them Ill grab and compare to My rounds and hollows . Apart from the radius having to be right I think Rounds and hollows are used or can be used with spring , From the side angle , If that's the correct way of saying it . I know planes have spring but are they used with spring ?? And my guess atm is rule joint planes dont have spring ?? not sure atm though .

Rob

Originally Posted by Luke Maddux

I've seen a lot of plane pairs online that typically fetch a higher price than the average hollows and rounds which are called, most commonly, "Table Joint Planes". I've also seen them called "Rule Joint Planes", which I'm going to venture was what they were called at the time, and the term "rule joint" has become dumbed down over time resulting in the vernacular forcing them to change names. Just a guess...

My question is, what makes these planes any different from a standard hollow and round pair? I've noticed some are boxed, but they don't have a fence, a depth stop, etc.

From what I can tell, there is no reason that this joint cannot be cut with hollows and rounds. Anyone with a contrary opinion?

Overall, just interested in what people think of these planes, their distinct qualities, and the cutting of this joint by hand in general. I expect I'll make a gateleg table in the next year or two.

Hi Luke

David Charlesworth covers the rule joint in his Furniture-Making Techniques Vol 2.
According to Mr Charlesworth, the joint gets it's name from "its visual similarity to the shape of the folding joint found in the classic carpenter's boxwood ruler."
However, I wouldn't be surprised if Charles Hayward has a different name for the joint.

A possible difference between a "standard" hollow and round pair and a "table joint" pair is that a rule joint incorporates a quirk and slightly different radii.

I think you could cut the joint with a pair of hollows and rounds -- but DC writes that when he tried this, there was a significant amount of sanding / scraping required to achieve the required clearances in the joint. The other point DC makes is that radii of the joint need to be matched to the thickness of the table top.

Hollows & rounds are 1/6th of a circle, are they not? The profile of a rule joint edge is usually more like a 1/4 circle, so I suspect that therin lieth the difference, but maybe not. In any case, Hs & Rs should do the job. If pushed, I reckon it would be easy enough do the round part of the joint with a rebate & block plane, but a hollow-forming plane of some sort would be handy for the matching hollow.

Originally Posted by auscab

........ I do all my rule joints by hand , that's both my hands, pushing the top across the router table .....

Pure heresy, Rob, but I have to confess to using one of them there screamin' 'lectron burners for the few I've made, too. And you don't need special bits, standard coving & round-over bits cut a 1/4 circle & do the job. You can adjust for different thicknesses of table top by adjusting the depth of the fillet...

Cheers,

I gotta admit, I feel a bit stupid for not thinking about the fact that the radii of the two curves aren't the same. If they were then they wouldn't mate. I assume the female has to be 1/64 or so larger.

I do agree that there is no reason this shouldn't be achievable with hollows, rounds, and a bit of skill, but for doing it on more than one project, I now see the point of the dedicated pair.

Rob, as far as the lingo, I'd imagine this is an American thing. Most of the tool sites I creep on are based here, and we have a tendency to take things and give them our own names I suppose. We make them "great again", if you will...

Interesting topic to think about. Maybe I could make my own. I doubt it would be all that difficult once the radii were understood and established.

Cheers,
Luke

I wouldn't get too hung up on the different radii, Luke, it's infinitesimal, since the two surfaces virtually touch. I reckon for all intents & purposes, you could make your plane pair the same nominal radii. Just finesse the fit by taking an extra stroke or two off one or the other.

From my vast experience (I've made a grand total of 4 joints, I think) the essential bit is to make sure the boards are flat & the mating edges straight & square before the cove & round are cut. My middle daughter has the first table I made with rule joints, and I notice one leaf doesn't sit flat in the middle when it is raised, now, most likely due to warping of thee drop leaf. I keep meaning to investigate the problem, but always forget before I leave. But since I'm 1700Km from home and my shed, there's not much I could do about it anyway!

Cheers,

Table Joint Planes
Joinery planes usually cut grooved joints (tongue-and-groove, dado, rabbet etc.), and moulding planes are generally used for decorative profiles. While table joint planes could be classed as joinery planes, they look like moulding planes. One member of a table joint pair is used to cut the profile on the tabletop (the round) and the other cuts the mating profile on the drop leaf (the hollow or cove). Table joint planes were manufactured in matched pairs but sets have often been separated over the years and they are not easy to find.

The most obvious characteristic of table joint planes is that they cut a 90°, or quarter-round, profile. In contrast, hollow and round planes cut a 60° profile (equivalent to the segment of the circle on which the profile is based). Almost every table joint plane I have seen cuts a 3⁄8″ arc or round. Any pair of these will cut rule joints on stock ranging from about 1⁄2″ to 1″ thick – the difference in thickness is made up by the height of the fillet. With any of these planes, the fence of the plane references off the underside of the stock. https://www.popularwoodworking.com/t...-hand-by-power




Making Table (Rule) Joint Planes w/ Bill Anderson — The Woodwright’s School

Like IanW says with the Radius I think Luke. All the old joints Ive seen are so close there is no room for much of a finish , they quite often are burnished from rubbing and have a shine from that and wax, probably Paraffin to stop them squeaking.
I had a quick look and found one that looks right but its too small I think , stamped 1/4 . I don't know if this is a half from a small pair or just a cove from some sort of window use or not ? There is no table top for one this small so its got to be something else ?
Rob

Well thank you gentlemen!! This is all new to me!!

Just goes to show that there is always something to learn.

I'd been looking for a pair of table joint planes for several years. Inspired by this thread I searched Jim Bode's site and found these. They're for 5/8" stock.

table joint planes side view 122117.jpg

This is what they look like end-on.

table joint planes close up parallel end view 122117.jpg

This is the joint they make.

table joint planes produced profile end view 122117.JPG

Note that the joint presented on the table top (bottom of photo) is tight but the radii and spacing of the rounded section and it's mate are cut with more clearance to prevent rubbing.

Like so many things there are multiple ways of cutting a rule joint. Not sure if this link will work, but it is episode 3 of season 23 of "The Woodwright's Shop."

Table Joints Rule! | The Woodwright's Shop | PBS

It shows a few different ways to lay out the joint with planes made for cutting the joint and with hollows & rounds.

jtk

Originally Posted by Jim Koepke

Like so many things there are multiple ways of cutting a rule joint. Not sure if this link will work, but it is episode 3 of season 23 of "The Woodwright's Shop."

Table Joints Rule! | The Woodwright's Shop | PBS

It shows a few different ways to lay out the joint with planes made for cutting the joint and with hollows & rounds.

jtk

Welcome Jim.

Good to see you here in Australia.

(Stu Gillard in the creek)