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  1. #1
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    Default Thinking about a Scrub Plane

    I've got some cypress that I rough-milled from a tree that blew over in a storm, and as I don't have thicknesser or jointer, was thinking of trying to plane a few pieces by hand. So, I need a scrub plane.

    First place I looked is online at auctions to see what a Stanley #40 goes for. They aren't that common in South Africa, so the only place I managed to find any prices is on ebay in the US, and it seems you'll need somewhere between $100 and $150 to secure one in decent nick. It also seems that I can get one from Lie-Nielsen for $169, or the Veritas at $125.

    So, if I have to negotiate with an ebay seller to convince him to ship to South Africa (many don't as a matter of course), and still end up with a plane that may or may not need work, it seems the simplest would be to pop onto Lee Valley's website and get one from there. It's not really going to cost me much more if any, and I'll get a shiny new plane which is going to work well out of the box. You can't fault Lee Valley's customer service and shipping.

    I'll still keep an eye out for a second hand Stanley #40, and having a vintage plane around is always nice, but I honestly can't remember when last I saw one for sale locally.

    Is my logic sound, or am I missing something here?

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  3. #2
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    Default

    Your logic is good Colin62
    If I had my time over again I would have 3 planes, all veritas 1 jack, 1 Jointer and 1 Block. As far as a scrub plan goes there was a recent suggestion here on converting a dysfunctional Stanley 5 to a scrub plane. Might be worth a look.

    TT
    Learning to make big bits of wood smaller......

  4. #3
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    Colin, for many, many years I got by very well with a converted #4 as a scrub. Just set the frog well back, put a curve in the blade and watch it hog out huge chips easily. In retrospect, a #5 would have been better for some jobs, but the 4 acquitted itself well enough. You can convert any old clunker - these are not tools of high refinement!

    The radius of the curve is optional. The tighter the radius, the bigger the chips you can remove, but the deeper the grooves to be removed afterwards with jack or jointer. I used about a 75mm radius curve, which made a good compromise for most of my purposes.

    A year or so back I finally went wild & bought a Veritas. It's better than the converted 4, no question, but I probably could have lived out my days comfortably enough with the old 4. Most of its improved performance is due to that thick, solid blade, and the stripped-down construction that makes them quite light. You could probably achieve something of that by getting your hands on a very thick blade & dispensing with the cap iron, which has to be set way back on the curved blade, so in this instance, it serves no real purpose other than giving the lever cap something to bear against. While you're at it, chuck away the lateral adjuster and depth adjuster, they also serve no useful purpose in such a tool, & it will lighten it a bit more.

    At the very least, you could just take an old blade for one of your existing planes and put a curve in it & give it a whirl - I think you'll be amazed at how effective it can be...

    Cheers,
    IW

  5. #4
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    I got by with an old German style horned wood bodied plane that had a wide mouth. I put a 3'' radius curve in the blade and away she went. Since then I have got a stanley scrub and am happy with it but I was getting by well enough with the old woodie. A wide open mouth and curved blade is what makes it work and there are plenty of old 3s, 4s & 5s looking for a new life. I think a 5 is perhaps a bit long for the job as a scrub is about the size of a narrow 4 and also the weight is less. Anyhow good luck with the search
    Regards
    John

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by orraloon View Post
    I got by with an old German style horned wood bodied plane that had a wide mouth. I put a 3'' radius curve in the blade and away she went. Since then I have got a stanley scrub and am happy with it but I was getting by well enough with the old woodie. A wide open mouth and curved blade is what makes it work and there are plenty of old 3s, 4s & 5s looking for a new life. I think a 5 is perhaps a bit long for the job as a scrub is about the size of a narrow 4 and also the weight is less. Anyhow good luck with the search
    Regards
    John
    I also use a horned old woody as a scrub plane. 1. you can easily open up the mouth as much as you like. 2. It is light 3. the blades are normally thicker than the iron planes.

  7. #6
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    Thanks for all the feedback

    The only #5 that I own, while nothing special, was my dad's old plane, so for sentimental reasons I'll rather keep it working as well as I can. I have a #5 1/2, but that's starting to get wide, and it's too nice an old plane to fiddle with.

    I have a #3 that I bought, online, thinking that the handles were wood, and was dismayed to discover that they're plastic. I suspect it may be a bit too small though - especially since I have fairly large hands, and I might battle to push hard with a dinky little plane.

    I'll mull it over for a bit and continue to keep an eye on the auction sites. I'm leaning towards buying rather than converting, as converting will mean probably buying something to convert, and then finding a think enough blade. In the meanwhile, the cypress can dry a little longer.

  8. #7
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    The advantage of the #40 and #40-1/2 to me is that they are so narrow.

    Stanley #40 scrub plane. - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum

    Next to a #5 ...

    #40 #5.jpg

    Looking on US ebay, I see some stupid prices ... but also $80 (6hrs to go), $40 (33hrs), $35 (38hrs), $65 (3days), $15 (6 days), $11 (6 days), $32 (6 days)

    & BuyNow/Offer at $110 and at $120 + the one I have pm you.

    I would be surprised if by sheer persistence you couldn't get one for $60 or less from the US. Then comes the postage of course.

    Brown tool auction is on sat 25th and they have a #40 and a #40-1/2 ... price estimate of $125-$225 for the two.
    https://www.finetoolj.com/ftj.php/auction/view/68/1


    and finally ... you could make your own. This link puts a LV blade at US$18 (HCS) and $38 (A2) in 2007 ... so surely not super expensive today.
    scrub plane | Galoototron


  9. #8
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    Thanks for that info pmcgee.

    I'll keep an eye out on ebay, and will also watch the Brown tool auction. In fact I might become addicted to the Brown tool auction

  10. #9
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  11. #10
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    An excellent suggestion - if you ever thought about making a plane, I reckon a scrub would be the perfect type to begin with. The mouth isn't critical, and as long as the sole is reasonably straight, & you can jam that blade in place, it will work. As I said before, these are not tools of great refinement, just a (slightly) controlled adze.

    A caveat - be careful! Making tools is a dangerous pastime, the gratification it can bring is highly intoxicating & addictive. DAMHIK.......

    Cheers,
    IW

  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanW View Post
    A caveat - be careful! Making tools is a dangerous pastime, the gratification it can bring is highly intoxicating & addictive. DAMHIK.......
    That is what worries me

  13. #12
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    I found this interesting

    The easiest way to look at this is as follows. A scrub plane is a particular type of plane designed for one job. A fore plane is a bench plane in all aspects other than being tuned with a heavy camber and open mouth.

    Here's the real difference though - Scrubs are of of Germanic / Dutch origin.

    Fore planes are French / English.

    ie - two different cultures having different means for the same job.
    That quote is from post #20 in the link that pmcgee posted earlier choosing a scrub plane (german planes expert needed) - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum

  14. #13
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    A bit of a tangent, but hand planing cypress can be horrendous. I love it and use it quite a bit but you'll hit knots you'd swear were chunks of granite.

    That said, I use a horned german scrub plane and it's always won in the end.
    ...I'll just make the other bits smaller.

  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin62 View Post
    I found this interesting



    That quote is from post #20 in the link that pmcgee posted earlier choosing a scrub plane (german planes expert needed) - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
    Colin, being a born lumper & not a splitter, I wonder about these sorts of fine distinctions. What may be indisputable is that the English & French preferred slightly longer, heavier planes for their foreplay. With a woodie, once you 'open the mouth', that's a permanent modification, so any plane thus modified is destined for rough work from then on. Of course you can inlay a strip to close the mouth again, but that's hardly something you would do on a daily basis, so essentially, you have a one-trick pony whether you start with a German scrub or modify a 'bench plane'. Of course it's more feasible with metal planes, just put the frog forward again & de-curve a blade..

    I think the important consideration is what size of scrub plane will suit you best, large, small, wide, narrow. Ideal length will depend on what you do most with it. A wider blade, along with the radius of curvature you choose for it, dictates the area of exposure you can have for a given depth of cut, & thus how much wood is going to come away with each stroke. The bigger & stronger you are, & the softer the wood, the more you can take off at a swipe. In my youth, I might have found a modified #6 great to use, but these days, the narrow blade of my Veritas suits me just fine.

    And Matt - I think the Cypress Colin is talking about is probably a real Cupressus sp., and not what you are thinking of. Our native conifer known as 'Cypress' (Callitris sp.)is a distant cousin in the family, and is one of the hardest softwoods in the world, whereas any Cupressus I've struck is pretty easy-working stuff. That said, the knots in any softwood can rattle the composure of a handplane!

    Cheers,

    Cheers,
    IW

  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanW View Post
    Colin, being a born lumper & not a splitter, I wonder about these sorts of fine distinctions. What may be indisputable is that the English & French preferred slightly longer, heavier planes for their foreplay.
    I just found the distinction interesting from a historical point of view. It's always a can of worms trying to organise things into an artificial hierarchy, especially when, if you want to be bloody minded, you could use just about any sized plane for most jobs, and with enough patience and perseverance you'll get the job done. Technique is still a good substitute for size

    Quote Originally Posted by IanW View Post
    I think the important consideration is what size of scrub plane will suit you best, large, small, wide, narrow. Ideal length will depend on what you do most with it. A wider blade, along with the radius of curvature you choose for it, dictates the area of exposure you can have for a given depth of cut, & thus how much wood is going to come away with each stroke. The bigger & stronger you are, & the softer the wood, the more you can take off at a swipe. In my youth, I might have found a modified #6 great to use, but these days, the narrow blade of my Veritas suits me just fine.
    One of the things that worries me about the Stanley #40 is that the handle is reportedly quite small. I'm quite large and have bigger than normal hands, and have enough hassles gripping planes as it is. (One of the issues is some nerve damage to my right hand which means I can't feel my little finger, and have to physically look to make sure it's in the handle and not sticking out where it will get bashed on the workpiece.) While I'm quite large, I hesitate to describe myself as strong - I have begun to feel the effects of ageing, and am not as strong as I used to be in my youth (but I do generate considerable momentum, when in motion).

    The more research I do and the more I think about it, the more inclined I am to do as suggested upthread and open the throat of my #5, put a curve on the blade and give it a go this weekend. And as I typed that I remembered all the other stuff I have to do this weekend, in places that are 300 - 400km apart. More time for research and contemplation I suppose.

    At the back of my mind is the feeling that while doubling the width of a blade will require double the effort for a similar depth cut, I'm less certain that doubling the depth of a cut will require double the effort at the same width. In other words, I think going with deeper narrow cuts, you'll remove more stock for the same effort than going wide and shallow. I have no intention of proving this experimentally though.

    Quote Originally Posted by IanW View Post
    And Matt - I think the Cypress Colin is talking about is probably a real Cupressus sp., and not what you are thinking of. Our native conifer known as 'Cypress' (Callitris sp.)is a distant cousin in the family, and is one of the hardest softwoods in the world, whereas any Cupressus I've struck is pretty easy-working stuff. That said, the knots in any softwood can rattle the composure of a handplane!
    Yes, this stuff is soft as butter, although I don't know the species. It actually cuts nicely, and takes a good finish, and I like the grain. The knots are definitely a lot harder than the clear timber.

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