Thread: Time for a handsaw or two?

Lance,
I know it is a new saw and that you did sak for something like a D8, but have you looked at the large Veritas Tenon Saw?
The big advantage, when cutting bridle joints, is the near 100 mm depth of cut from a saw with a stiffening spine.

Cost CAD $169.
From the advertising blurb ...

"Weighing just under 1 1/2 lb with 16" blades, ... the largest saw in the Veritas line. Available in 9 tpi rip
the blades are made from 0.024" thick high-carbon steel with 0.003" of set per side and a cut depth of nearly 4".
The ripping saw teeth have a 14° rake angle
Each saw is well balanced, with a spine molded from a mixture of stainless-steel powder for weight, glass fiber for stiffness and a polymer resin binder.
The closed handle is configured for exceptional control for a saw of this size and weight, with a hardwood grip secured by a stainless-steel bolt and brass nut.
The blade and handle-mounting bolt are molded into the spine, creating a solid blade/spine/mount assembly."

I have one, and although I don't use it much, when I need to make a deep bridle joint it is the saw I reach for.

(I also have a 16in long cross-cut back saw, but (a) it's not a Veritas, and (b) it's maker is no longer in business. That said it's the saw I use when I need to cut Class 1 joints in larger members.)

Not quite what Lance was asking for but these guys might be worth a look and could be of interest to others.
They were at the Lost Trades Fair in Bendigo. They hand make saws and the handles are made to fit the buyers hand.
They obviously have a large stock of various tools also - next time I am over that way, I will be calling in.

HERITAGE SAWS made in MELBOURNE hand shaped exotic timber handles
– Vintage Tool Shop Pty Ltd

Lance,

Something like this would be more than perfect,

Think of it like a Toyota Ute, not pretty but a work horse.

VINTAGE WARRANTED SUPERIOR 22" HAND SAW 10 TPI SHARPENED & SET | eBay


Yes Tapered grinding is great I understand it perfectly.
But for your first foray in to panel saws, that EBay offering is not bad.
I didn’t look close enough too see weather it’s Rip or Cross cut sorry,


The other option is just put your hand up and ask if anyone has a Panel Saw they want to move on here.

I’m sure we can all think of at least one Individual from another state up north.

Cheers Matt.

Originally Posted by LanceC

Oh, and as an embarrassing postscript, I did end up with one or two hand saws from Paul and Matt's great saw giveaway. But despite spending several hours in the shed, I can only find the handles, with no trace of the plates which were put somewhere safe once I'd cleaned all the rust from them.

Holy snapping duck s**t! I suppose you are now going to tell us the handles are not cutting really well!



Regards
Paul

Lance, those are deep joints, but are they more than 100mm? I ask because there are plenty of tenon saws out there that are capable of cutting to 100mm or close to it. Like the other Ian, I don't use my largest tenon saw that much (14" x just under 4" cutting depth), but for cutting out large joints it's a boon.

OTH, you must surely be ready for some good handsaws by now! For the job you just did, a panel saw would be a good choice. I find something like 20 or 22 inches is more controllable in that situation than a "full sized" saw (26-28"). I'd recommend a pair of both panel & hand saws (rip & x-cut) as a bare minimum. I predict you'll find so many jobs for them in coming years you'll wonder how you ever got along without them. If you feel you are competent at sharpening your backsaws, you won't have much trouble with large saws - much easier to deal with larger teeth! My biggest problem when starting out was figuring out how much set to apply - if you only cut dry wood, you really don't need much set, but it can take a bit of trial & error to figure out what suits you & your conditions best.

There were still a few decent old saws around last time I looked, but they must be getting more scarce as time goes by (& Bushmiller buys them all up! ). Old Disstons & Spear & Jacksons are a pretty safe bet as long as they aren't badly pitted, worn down to a sliver, or kinked, but there are several other brands out there that are equally good imo (did someone mention Simonds?? ). For someone entirely new to old saws, the handles can be a useful guide - a well-shaped handle on an old saw indicates it's from the era when they were still made to be used regularly, so the blades should be taper-ground & tensioned. Taper-grinding was a leap forward in saw technology, but tensioning is equally important. A nicely-tensioned saw has a feel to it that is hard to describe, but it feels 'alive' as compared with the dead thing you've been using. A tensioned saw is instantly recognisable (they "ring" when tapped whereas the things with plastic handles, which are neither tapered nor tensioned, just make a dull metallic sound). The difference between a good handsaw and one of those plastic thingies is day vs night.

Cheers,
Ian

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

......! I suppose you are now going to tell us the handles are not cutting really well....l

No, he just wore them right out......

I was reading about the hand-made Heritage Saws of Melbourne when I read the following:

...."LEFT HANDED stamped saws can be made if you're a leftie at no extra cost, please specify at your time of order"...

Que¿¿¿

Left-handed saws? Could this explain why I can't saw straight... !

Cheers
Yvan

Originally Posted by yvan

I.......Left-handed saws? Could this explain why I can't saw straight... ! [/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE]......

Surprisingly perhaps Yvan, you could have a "handed" saw - thumb-hole handles would have to be mirror images to suit lefties.
OTH, it could be just a Lee Valley type joke......
Cheers,

Originally Posted by IanW

Surprisingly perhaps Yvan, you could have a "handed" saw - thumb-hole handles would have to be mirror images to suit lefties.
OTH, it could be just a Lee Valley type joke......
Cheers,

Ian, don’t forget the pretty Medallion would need also to be placed on the “Other” side,
It’s all in the details [emoji6].

Cheers Matt.

Oh dear, as if it weren't embarrassing enough having to admit I lost some saws, the Ians' suggestion of a large tenon saw reminded me that I have one of those, and having just checked, would have been large enough! Gah! In my defence though, my three backsaws sit under my bench mostly out of sight. Because the largest hardly gets used, I just reached for the mid sized one when initially trying to cut the joint, forgetting that Pappa Bear was waiting just a little further to the right. I don't look for the saw, just stick my hand under the bench and grab the one I have in mind. Also, this isn't just any saw, it's the venerable Maatsuyker #11976-4324. How could I have forgotten it?

20220407_133851.jpg 20220407_133619.jpg

Regardless, the decision has been made to search out some nice second hand saws.

Originally Posted by IanW

I find something like 20 or 22 inches is more controllable in that situation than a "full sized" saw (26-28"). I'd recommend a pair of both panel & hand saws (rip & x-cut) as a bare minimum.

I had initially considered a pair of 22" (ish) panel saws as they're smaller and I would guess more commonly used at a bench. Could you expand on the need for two sizes? Is it more to do with the larger saws having a lower TPI, or a longer stroke for longer cuts?

Originally Posted by IanW

For someone entirely new to old saws, the handles can be a useful guide - a well-shaped handle on an old saw indicates it's from the era when they were still made to be used regularly, so the blades should be taper-ground & tensioned. Taper-grinding was a leap forward in saw technology, but tensioning is equally important. A nicely-tensioned saw has a feel to it that is hard to describe, but it feels 'alive' as compared with the dead thing you've been using. A tensioned saw is instantly recognisable (they "ring" when tapped whereas the things with plastic handles, which are neither tapered nor tensioned, just make a dull metallic sound). The difference between a good handsaw and one of those plastic thingies is day vs night.

This is really useful for evaluating a saw when in my hands.

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

I suppose you are now going to tell us the handles are not cutting really well!

It's probably because they have no set.

Hi Lance. I find it hard to use the bigger handsaws on my bench (probably more to do with all the stuff on it than anything else), these I use at work or for cross cutting outside. Ripping is a different story, even my 28" one is fine, sawing parallel to the front of the bench. I have a couple of shorter panel saws but I tend to use the backsaws more often than not (and please don't think I am trying to talk you out of getting more saws)

Originally Posted by LanceC

...... I had initially considered a pair of 22" (ish) panel saws as they're smaller and I would guess more commonly used at a bench. Could you expand on the need for two sizes? Is it more to do with the larger saws having a lower TPI, or a longer stroke for longer cuts?.....

Panel saws were typically packed in the portable toolbox when sawing might be required, but not too much of it. As you've no doubt noticed with the hardpoints (which are usually 500mm, or 20 inches in old money), a short blade gives a short, choppy stroke which gets a bit tedious if you are doing some serious work like sawing through a 4 x 4 hardwood post. So a 20-22 inch saw isn't what you'd reach for to whiz down a 1 inch board that needed to be made narrower. For that, a 26 inch (or 28 inch if you're a big fella) is far more comfortable, allowing a full stroke & more rapid progress.

So size your saws to suit your own anatomy & what/where they'll be used most. I like to have both panel saws & full-sized handsaws, because as MA says, full-sized saws can be a bit awkward in a confined space, but if I was allowed only one size, I'd opt for the full-size saws, which I use far more often. Despite owning a 17" bandsaw & a 10 inch tablesaw, hardly a day goes by that I would not use a handsaw for something that's safer or quicker or better done by hand, even if it's just to dock a long plank into manageable lengths....

Tooth sizes are also a matter of preference - my two crosscuts are 9 point, one rip is 7 point & "big bertha" is a 28", 5-3tpi progressive pitch. My two panel saws, one rip, one x-cut, are both 10 point. I find that a very useful mix for me, but mileages will vary...

Cheers,
Ian

Looking for no restriction on depth, but sacrificing the spine found on a tenon saw why not look at a veneer saw, Irwin, Bacco, etc. 12 tpi, 15tpi so finer than your panel saw.
8F910CE1-1E28-4782-8181-273E0D2CAAC3.jpeg