Thread: Toledo Swedish chisels - any good

Originally Posted by The Spin Doctor

Are they any good, how do they rate compared to old sorby, marples or bergs?

They are from Eskilstuna.
Up there with Bergs and Jernbolagets in my estimation.
If you see one, grab it
Tom

Originally Posted by Scribbly Gum

They are from Eskilstuna.
Up there with Bergs and Jernbolagets in my estimation.
If you see one, grab it
Tom

Took a closer look at their description at the old tool shop and won't be buying them. The description says some idiot took an angle grinder to them to clean them up. And they "tested" them with a magnet to see if they'd been overheated... Magnet tests aren't remotely definitive on carbon steel for overheating and if some idiot is willing to take an angle grinder to such a chisel, highly likely the monkey wrecked them.

Originally Posted by The Spin Doctor

Took a closer look at their description at the old tool shop and won't be buying them. The description says some idiot took an angle grinder to them to clean them up. And they "tested" them with a magnet to see if they'd been overheated... Magnet tests aren't remotely definitive on carbon steel for overheating and if some idiot is willing to take an angle grinder to such a chisel, highly likely the monkey wrecked them.

What a pity.
The Toledos from Sweden seem to have been mostly sold in Australia and could easily be a re-brand from one of the other manufacturers.
I am unsure who might have been the Australian distributor, but they are said to be more common here than anywhere else.
I have a couple and they are very good indeed
Tom

Originally Posted by The Spin Doctor

Took a closer look at their description at the old tool shop and won't be buying them. The description says some idiot took an angle grinder to them to clean them up. And they "tested" them with a magnet to see if they'd been overheated... Magnet tests aren't remotely definitive on carbon steel for overheating and if some idiot is willing to take an angle grinder to such a chisel, highly likely the monkey wrecked them.

that's a funny test. They'd need to be heated to austenitizing temperatures and still be there to be nonmagnetic. They'd make a nice night light if someone could pull that trick off.

Originally Posted by Scribbly Gum

What a pity.
The Toledos from Sweden seem to have been mostly sold in Australia and could easily be a re-brand from one of the other manufacturers.
I am unsure who might have been the Australian distributor, but they are said to be more common here than anywhere else.
I have a couple and they are very good indeed
Tom

I'm speculating (at lloyds window with other peoples' money) that all of these eskilstuna chisels are going to be about the same. it would be some extra effort to have different grades of steel when the bar that goes into the berg chisels and really any good chisels is not very expensive compared to most alloys.

One of the blessings of chiseldom is you can make world class chisels with steels that are pretty easy to manufacture and don't cost much per kg.

Last i checked silver steel rod, it's about $2-$3 per kg, and is probably a little more expensive than whatever eskilstuna would've been using in something like a 0.8-0.9% carbon drill rod.

Out of curiosity, i have about a zillion half finished chislels at the moment. They're tang chisels, not terribly light in grind and an average of about 5.5 inches below the bolster. a typical set of them - of 6, is about 19 ounces, or just over a pound.

it'd be a real bear to start sourcing different steels to save what would be the difference between 0.9% carbon drill rod and 0.7% carbon drill rod or something like that. Perhaps about 20 cents per set of chisels at the scale berg was operating - in current money.

There could be slight changes in grinding costs to add to that, but boy would I hate to keep that straight if I were a manufacturer, because the drill rods look just about the same if someone unintentionally walks around with bars missing the mark or where it's been rubbed off.

I read somewhere that Eskiltuna is/was a manufacturing hub like old Sheffield, where many small companies did contract work for the "known" brands like Berg. The striking similarities of the various chisels that come out of Sweden bearing different brand names lends support to that story. It's possible that some of the sub contractors produced 'less good' chisels than others, but one would think the companies that put their stamps on the products would do their best to ensure quality & consistency in what they were passing on as theirs. My limited experience of several different chisel types coming out of Eskiltuna suggest that seems to be the case, they are/were all remakably similar not only in handle shape, choice of wood & shape of blade but also in the hardness of the steel.

I have a 1 1/8" BE "Black Diamond" (one of the moderately common names to come out of that part of Sweden). It is indistinguishable from the Bergs I had except for the name stamp. It's a good chisel, slightly on the softer side (like the Bergs I had), but not soft enough to curl up at low grind angles & takes a fine edge easily. I use it a lot...
Cheers,

PS. I've had a lot of old chisels through my hands over the years & been gobsmacked at what some heavy-handed heroes have done to them with angle-grinders or whatever. I have resurrected a few, with much painful lapping, but I'm well & truly over that phase of my life - if I saw even a 'nice' chisel at a good price with that sort of damage now, I'd walk on too....

I would imagine there could be something else at work in terms of the similar looks. A patented or centrally supplied piece of equipment.

https://galootopia.com/old_tools/wp-...ds/beaver8.jpg

Some of the earlier sets show some sign of some hand work and a relatively good flushing of the bevels to socket or tang.

On this set of beavers, you can just plainly tell that the tang is turned down in a jigged setup or automated lathe and, and the grinding is done on some automated machine where the attempt to flush the tang and the bevels was dismissed as too much work.

but it could also be as you say, that there was a contract shop with die or drop forging, an induction heating system and an automatic grinding setup.

https://cdn.ecommercedns.uk/files/2/...1/img-6025.jpg

These look a bit better and the grinding is "crossed". Berg chisels as I recall the ones I had, had linear grinding marks as well as crossing. Contrast that with a lot of chisels now that display a rotary mark for all of the grinding.

Dowidat Coffey Pty Ltd was the distributor of Toledo tools, was based at North Richmond NSW. In my apprenticeship i worked with a young carpenter whose mother worked at their factory and he got me a set of Toledo chisels which I have either worn out or lost over the years. The factory had its own drop forge and produced shifters and ring spanners.

Originally Posted by rwbuild

Dowidat Coffey Pty Ltd was the distributor of Toledo tools, was based at North Richmond NSW. In my apprenticeship i worked with a young carpenter whose mother worked at their factory and he got me a set of Toledo chisels which I have either worn out or lost over the years. The factory had its own drop forge and produced shifters and ring spanners.

I must be getting old. I knew about Coffey and Dowidat and the Toledo connection, but had forgotten it
Interestingly, I think that Coffey Dowidat may have produced some Toledo chisels of their own in the Richmond plant.
I have some that I think came from there.
Here is a picture of my Toledos next to a Berg.
The three on the left with the acetate handles are the ones I suspect of being made by Coffey Dowidat
Tom

IMG_20240116_111021.jpg

IMG_20240116_111108.jpg

The set I had were timber handles

Originally Posted by rwbuild

The set I had were timber handles

Similar to the fourth chisel above most likely.
It is an Eskilstuna Toledo - the other plastic handled Toledos are not stamped on the blade - apart from their size in inches
Tom