Thread: Toothed Foreplane.

Interesting plane Stewie, I note a 50 degree angle, so this is not a long toothing plane then? A 22" toothed trying plane for flattening benches perhaps? I look forward to seeing your process, and the tools you use.

Cheers
Peter

Originally Posted by Heavansabove

Interesting plane Stewie, I note a 50 degree angle, so this is not a long toothing plane then? A 22" toothed trying plane for flattening benches perhaps? I look forward to seeing your process, and the tools you use.

Cheers
Peter

Hi Peter. Yes its not your traditional approach for veneer work.

Stewie;

I made the decision to make a couple of changes to the design of the toothing plane. 1st was to reduce the length from 22 to 12 inches. This will make the total weight of the hand plane much more manageable. The 2nd change was the blade bed angle. Its been increased from 50 to 55 degree's. I have built other toothing planes at 55 degree's but not at 50, so I will stick with what I know will work well.

As you will see from the following photo's I am making steady progress with the build. The blade and wedge have been installed. I have set the mouth opening in front of the blade at about 1/8 inch. Much wider than you would require with a conventional blade.

One of the benefits of choosing Merbau for the plane block is its high level of natural tannins. It turns a dark black colour after about 3 coats when treated with an iron oxide stain. (so far the main body has only received its 1st coat.)

I still need to add a bevelled edge across the top and down both ends of the plane block.

I am still undecided on whether a rear tote is needed. Feedback welcome on the need to do so.


Stewie;











This photo shows most of the hand tools I have used so far to build the toothing plane.

I am very happy with the flatness of the blade bed as well as the fit of the wedge within the abutments. I use 2 different methods to create a good result with both. With the blade bed I use an ink blotting paper to highlight any high spots with the back of the toothing blade. These marks are then removed with a side or edge float and the process repeated until an even spread of markings show up at the top and bottom of the bed. The middle area of the bed is not as critical in height and can be slightly lower.

With the wedge abutments I coat the top and sides of the wedge with a coloured crayon pencil prior to refitting the wedge with the toothing blade installed. When the wedge is removed any tight spots that impinge on the wedge going full depth will show up with a crayon marking. These marks are removed with a side or edge float and the process repeated until an even spread of markings show along on each side of the wedge abutments. (top to bottom).

I am definitely not in the same league as Phil Edwards when it comes to traditional hand plane builds. But I do reasonably well considering my limited experience.

regards Stewie;

Originally Posted by planemaker

I am very happy with the flatness of the blade bed as well as the fit of the wedge within the abutments. I use 2 different methods to create a good result with both. With the blade bed I use an ink blotting paper to highlight any high spots with the back of the toothing blade. These marks are then removed with a side or edge float and the process repeated until an even spread of markings show up at the top and bottom of the bed. The middle area of the bed is not as critical in height and can be slightly lower.

With the wedge abutments I coat the top and sides of the wedge with a coloured crayon pencil prior to refitting the wedge with the toothing blade installed. When the wedge is removed any tight spots that impinge on the wedge going full depth will show up with a crayon marking. These marks are removed with a side or edge float and the process repeated until an even spread of markings show along on each side of the wedge abutments. (top to bottom).

I am definitely not in the same league as Phil Edwards when it comes to traditional hand plane builds. But I do reasonably well considering my limited experience.

regards Stewie;

Hi Stewie, Beautiful work as usual, Where the hell do you get the time to do this!!!!
Where did you source the plane floats from ???
Cheers Richie

Originally Posted by Richie Rich

Hi Stewie, Beautiful work as usual, Where the hell do you get the time to do this!!!!
Where did you source the plane floats from ???
Cheers Richie

Hi Richie. Self funded early retirement. Here is the source for the planemaker floats. http://www.lie-nielsen.com/planemakers-floats/

Stewie;

A bit of a teaser for those well versed in traditional bench planes. Later down the track, if I need to re-flatten the sole of this toothing plane.

Will the mouth opening in front of the blade;

1/Increase in size. 2/Stay the same size. 3/Reduce in size. Stewie;

By the way you've laid out the front slope of the mouth, Stewie, I think you expect it to remain the same size for quite a few re-flattens of the sole... I saw the angles on the side and wondered why you'd set it out that way - eventually the light dawned. You must be planning to use this plane an awful lot, or live a very long time!

Is this your own invention, or did you get the idea from somewhere else? I'll be interested to hear how it performs. The shaving comes back before it comes up out of the throat, so it seems logical to make a 'wear-proof' throat this way, but my own experience has been that the throat needs to open up very quickly to get shavings out efficiently. I've had to go back & ease the forward slope a bit more on a couple of my own creations, to alleviate choking


Cheers,

Originally Posted by IanW

By the way you've laid out the front slope of the mouth, Stewie, I think you expect it to remain the same size for quite a few re-flattens of the sole... I saw the angles on the side and wondered why you'd set it out that way - eventually the light dawned. You must be planning to use this plane an awful lot, or live a very long time!

Is this your own invention, or did you get the idea from somewhere else? I'll be interested to hear how it performs. The shaving comes back before it comes up out of the throat, so it seems logical to make a 'wear-proof' throat this way, but my own experience has been that the throat needs to open up very quickly to get shavings out efficiently. I've had to go back & ease the forward slope a bit more on a couple of my own creations, to alleviate choking


Cheers,

Hi Ian. Far from being my own idea. The concept of including a back angle from the front of the mouth through to the throat (known as the wear angle) is traditional hand plane design. At a back angle of 8.5* that's more inline with what you would expect to see with a double iron installation. A single iron would traditional have a back angle of around 20*. Surprisingly that's not an overly concerning amount of back angle that would cause a constriction or choking. With a 55* bed angle you would have to go as high as 35* with the back angle before its face became in parallel alignment to the flat face of the iron installed. Corneel has done a lot of work into this subject, and is a very good source of knowledge to rely upon. I dont expect to see a choking problem with this toothing plane, but if I did occur, it wouldn't be that difficult to overcome.

The use of the back bevel will not prevent the throat from increasing in size after each re flatten of the wooden sole. But it can be controlled through the correct selection of the hardwood used for the main body of the plane, as well as continually applying paste wax or mutton tallow over the sole prior to use.

I have just about completed the final shaping work to the plane, so it wont be too far away when I can give it a test run and post the final photo's.

p.s. Have you had the chance to test out the solid carbide bit on some saw plate steel.


regards Stewie.

Stewie, the back bevel would have to be parallel with the bed bevel to maintain exactly the same mouth gap, which of course could only work at all with a single-iron plane. But I thought the reason you made it like that must be to minimise the change with wear & re-flattening that you get with a forward bevel to the front. Is there a purpose for it other than this? It looks to me like it adds considerably to the challenge of cutting out a clean throat!

Yes, I've learned a little bit about woods & sole-wear in my limited plane-making experience (I've made about a dozen planes over 35 years, about half of which were not very good). I've discovered the hard way that some woods wear like fury - Black bean has been my worst choice to date. Mind you, it was for a small double-radiused plane, which cops a lot of abrasion right in front of the mouth because of the way it's used, so I might be being a bit unfair. In general, I've tried to go for dense woods that are a bit 'greasy', like Cooktown Ironwood, which has worked pretty well. However, one of my little Cooktown Ironwood planes gets a bit gummy sometimes, & needs a bit of paraffin to keep it gliding smoothly, whereas another one (from a different block of Ironwood) is fine, which just reminds me that you can never take wood for granted!

Originally Posted by planemaker

... p.s. Have you had the chance to test out the solid carbide bit on some saw plate steel....

Not yet. Been too busy painting the house, which is taking three times as long as I planned, partly due to my indolence (no rush, now I'm retired!) & partly because I've had to do quite a few running repairs that I didn't expect (for instance, replacing a joist on the veranda, which you wouldn't expect on a 17 year old house! ). But I'm finally coming to the end of that job, & I will be having a big saw-making splurge soon, so it will be getting a good workout before too much longer....

Cheers,

Originally Posted by IanW

Stewie, the back bevel would have to be parallel with the bed bevel to maintain exactly the same mouth gap, which of course could only work at all with a single-iron plane. But I thought the reason you made it like that must be to minimise the change with wear & re-flattening that you get with a forward bevel to the front. Is there a purpose for it other than this? It looks to me like it adds considerably to the challenge of cutting out a clean throat!

Yes, I've learned a little bit about woods & sole-wear in my limited plane-making experience (I've made about a dozen planes over 35 years, about half of which were not very good). I've discovered the hard way that some woods wear like fury - Black bean has been my worst choice to date. Mind you, it was for a small double-radiused plane, which cops a lot of abrasion right in front of the mouth because of the way it's used, so I might be being a bit unfair. In general, I've tried to go for dense woods that are a bit 'greasy', like Cooktown Ironwood, which has worked pretty well. However, one of my little Cooktown Ironwood planes gets a bit gummy sometimes, & needs a bit of paraffin to keep it gliding smoothly, whereas another one (from a different block of Ironwood) is fine, which just reminds me that you can never take wood for granted!




Not yet. Been too busy painting the house, which is taking three times as long as I planned, partly due to my indolence (no rush, now I'm retired!) & partly because I've had to do quite a few running repairs that I didn't expect (for instance, replacing a joist on the veranda, which you wouldn't expect on a 17 year old house! ). But I'm finally coming to the end of that job, & I will be having a big saw-making splurge soon, so it will be getting a good workout before too much longer....

Cheers,

Hi Ian. I dont recall reading any information the explains in detail the reasons for the back angle, so I will need to speculate what the benefits may be.

Its referred to as the wear angle. If there was 0* back angle, the sharp edge formed at the very edge of the mouth entrance would be much more susceptible to wear when compared to that of a more relaxed angle.

This back angle would decrease the amount that the leading edge moves forward after each sole is re flatten. When compared to what you would encounter if there was 0* back angle.

Stewie;

All done. Hope you like what you see.

Stewie;



Tote Tool CO.







Sharpened and gave it a test run on a large block of Red Myrtle Burl wood.

No blade chatter so I did a very good job with seating the blade and wedge.

Extremely pleased with the performance of this hand plane. 10/10

Stewie, great job! Interesting to speculate on why longer toothing planes were not commercially made, especially say for flattening a bench top.

Originally Posted by Heavansabove

Stewie, great job! Interesting to speculate on why longer toothing planes were not commercially made, especially say for flattening a bench top.

Thanks Peter. I am extremely pleased with the way it performs and its final presentation looks a treat. The benefits of a toothing iron are well under valued. There is a lot of worked involved in building these the traditional method and to a high degree of accuracy. There is so much patience required.

Stewie;