Thread: toothing plane blade advice needed

Cant help with any technical advice as I have never used one but here is a very low cost version.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uCmtmj4wsE
Regards
John

Greg, I've never felt the need for a toothing blade for myself, but some folks swear by them. The old cabinetmaker who taught me a few things used to use one to 'key' the surface before spreading the glue. He obviously never read his materials science text. This may be counter-intuitive to many, but the strongest wood joint comes from two clean-cut, closely-apposed surfaces. Roughed-up surfaces have lots of torn fibres & actually produce a weaker joint.

The other application for toothed blades, & possibly the 'real' reason they came into being is dealing with cranky grain. The toothed blade has less tendency to chip out, & gets things pretty close & you finish with scrapers or whatever. Not having tried it, I can't say if it's better or faster than high-angle planing followed by scraping or sanding, which is my method of choice.

I'll sit back & see what the rest think....

Cheers,

https://anthonyhaycabinetmaker.wordp...l-of-our-time/

one reason that modern toothed plane blades are marketed towards low angle bevel-up planes is that a toothed blade in a low angle plane approximates the performance of a heavily cambered blade in a bevel down plane.

Toothed blades are good for working cranky and reversing grain, especially around knots.

If you use a toothing blade in a BU plane, simply add a high secondary micro bevel to the edge. You can go as high as you like. The wood will not tell the difference between this and a high angle or even vertical angle BD plane. The BU plane, however, should be easier to push.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Kunz make toothed blades that will fit Stanley style bench planes.
https://www.workshopheaven.com/hand-...ane-irons.html

Looking back on my, admittedly, limited experience, there's only one time I can think that a toothing plane may have been a boon, and that's during the build of my workbench in Forest Red Gum/QLD Blue Gum. That stuff would tear out with the grain off a freshly sharpened blade. A toothing plane may have prevented that. If we'd had one on hand we likely would've tried it, but we didn't.

Otherwise, sharp trumps all, including, in my experience, highly figured, reversing grain woods. I can almost always get where I want to get with the smoothing plane. Scraping comes in after that. I've never had a project where I couldn't make it happen with those two steps plus a few minutes of hand sanding.

Unfortunately, I can't comment on the technical stuff. That's just my input on toothing planes in general. If you make any breakthroughs, let us know!

Cheers,
Luke

All,
Thank you for the advice.

I don't have enough experience to have spent much time with cranky grain and have tended to deal with it either using a sharp smoothing plane set very, very fine, a scraper, or by being positively mediaeval about what is necessary, so a low angle toothing blade isn't near the top of my list. I can see that toothing is assumed by long-past veneering practice and it must have had some actual function back then, after-all edge glued boards weren't toothed, so toothing wasn't assumed for all glued surfaces, but the problem that it addresses is unclear.

Some background:

I've been looking at books by Tage Frid (Teaches Woodworking vol2) and Charles Hayward (Practical Veneering) with a view to some caul (or clamp) veneering. Hayward seems to more or less assume toothing, Frid doesn't mention it. In terms of the process, Hayward uses a heated caul to re-liquify already gelled hide glue if thats what is chosen, Frid doesn't mention heating. The combination of the two of them seems to cover the subject without conflicting very much. I'll find out whether thats true in due course.

I think what I'll do is put a composite veneer (a first attempt at a chess-board) on a 19mm pine core, planed and sanded not too smooth, using a heated caul and hide glue, and see how it goes. Plenty to go wrong, I may drive myself mad with this for months, but thats kind of the idea, unless I get side-tracked again. Shaping the boards to hold down the caul will be this weekend's exercise, and Frid describes the shaping, just not very well.

Greg

I think if they had a good gap filling glue for holding veneer close to the ground back in 1682 there would never have been a toothing plane from then onward. They Had Hide glue though and if you don't get things as flat as possible the pools of glue left in the low spots shrink and the glue lets go the veneer falls off . Ive seen this and worked at repairing Antiques that have this problem plenty of times . When you see under the veneer you see a half mm or more of crumbly glue that rubs of with a finger .
Its not always obvious that its an uneven surface under this problem . It could have easily been a cold workshop and an employee who just moved on with the next job rather than doing the job again . Or something like that, . Maybe the boss did it, he was getting old and his client was a PITA Tight A who beat him down on the price.

I defiantly agree with what IanW said above
" This may be counter-intuitive to many, but the strongest wood joint comes from two clean-cut, closely-apposed surfaces. "

What you do is see how good you think you can plane the surface and then tooth it . The toothing blade with a finely set blade skips across the high spots and you traverse down until you get to the bottom of your low spots , finish off straight with the grain and take off any fur with a sharp flat scraper. The toothing marks compared to the flat ground stand out and you know exactly when your flat.

If you just have the blade sticking out and doesnt skip off the high spots , it just rides up and down over the lot , your doing the wrong thing .

Another way of looking at it is most of the time veneers were laid onto pine which is a pain to scrape dead flat because of its softness . It doesn't scrape well. The toothing plane takes it down flat no problems.

They also didn't have great sand paper like today , if they did then a flat block with 60 or 40 grit probably does what the toothing plane does.

I tooth to be veneered surfaces and sawn veneers and facings before sawing them off the solid on the band saw. I do this for Hide glue or PVA / Titebond use.
larger pressings like whole parquetry top dinning tables I sometimes just machine , finishing the 5mm thick wood through my thicknesser which gives the best finish out of my machines. Then hit it with the festo sander and 60 Grit. Glueing down with thinned two pack like Araldite or Techniglue

Good luck with the veneering .

Rob

I think if they had a good gap filling glue for holding veneer close to the ground back in 1682 there would never have been a toothing plane from then onward.

Tononi's Toothed Plane blade

Perhaps it's two things:

-- it's easier to push through wood as you are only cutting half the time
-- the finish looks very trendy if left unsanded.

I watch several top veneering specialists videos and I don't recall them ever having a rough surface before pressing.

Rob,
Flatness is an interesting issue, particularly with pine. The growth rings can be awkward, but on the relatively big things I've built so far it hasn't mattered. It will matter with a chess board. What kind of toothing plane do you use? The modern low-angle kind or the old high angle kind?

Greg

I like the old planes Greg . They work, are time tested and proven . They are cheap , have heaps of character , I enjoy the hunt . I do have a late model toothing plane that was bought for me . I dont know why low angle Bevel up are in existance. If wood is tricky grained it gets scraped . Its possibly the same amount of scraping to remove the bevel up low angle plane marks as it is to just scrape it in the first place . My over dual head drum sander is what I would go to for getting through tricky stuff. Tricky stuff is usually on smaller items . you normally don't go building extension tables from the stuff .
The front left is a late model and I grab that the most . The well worn old one on the right is the workshop Toother I saw all dads cabinet makers use , Its got about 4mm of teeth left . It was the only Toothing plane used in his workshop between the early 1960s until the 2000. About 1990 is when dad came back form London with a box of Three or four new ones . The front one on the left is one of them . Its a euro plane and the London veneer shop Crispins , I think it was in London back then , It looks like its moved. They sold him the planes Im pretty sure. I also use the old one on the back left sometimes. The other two , one is a euro type. They were just good buy's at a tool sale .
I was made aware by Woodwould , not sure if it was here or his blog that toothing planes came in two blade types . fine and coarse . All my planes are fine , thats all I though existed , then one tool sale I picked up a loose blade and it was a coarse one . I took it and haven't seen it since ?? I think I know where it should be though.
Ill show you some toothing pictures next on a job I did a while back.

IMG_9043.jpgIMG_9046.JPGIMG_9047.JPGIMG_9045.JPG

IMG_9044.JPG


Rob