Tuning a Stanley #140 Skew Block Plane

**derekcohen** · 21st February 2005, 11:16 PM

Part 1

I use a vintage Stanley #140 skew block plane to tune tenon faces (Picture 1). For those unfamiliar with it, it has a skewed blade and a removable side The modern version of this is made by LN, which is different in a few important areas, such as a lower bed angle (the Stanley is 20 degrees while the LN is 12 degrees), and a much tighter mouth (the Stanley, by comparison, positively gapes). One could also mention the better construction of the LN (bronze) against the Stanley (cast iron), as well as the better blade (1/8” A2 steel) verses the 1/16”. Not only that, Garrett Hack remarked in The Handplane Book that “this should be an incredible tool, but mine has always fallen well short of expectations … it cuts poorly”.

After all these negative factors one would have to question just who wants a Stanley #140 anyway! Well I did some time ago, and I know that these are many others who own and use one as well. And probably with the same mixed feelings I have had. But no more – we Stanley #140-ers are going to rise up and take our places on the podium. With a few tweaks, this can become a mean fighting machine!

I began tuning the #140 about a year ago. This involved:

(1) Levelling and raising the frog – unless the frog is level, the blade will end up cantered to one side. The usual method of fixing this is to carefully file the high spots on the frog. Here, however, this will not work since, if you do this, it will lower the frog, effectively raise the bed angle, and widen the mouth even more. You can test this out by adding a little packing under the blade at the mouth. What we want to do instead is to raise this area, since then the blade will close the mouth nice and tightly. To do this I used a little 5-minute epoxy. Place this on the frog (Picture 2) and then seat the blade directly over this (making sure that you cover the contact areas with a little oil first). Press down carefully, and adjust from both sides until the blade is perfectly aligned with the mouth. This will close the mouth up as tightly as you desire.

(2) The original Stanley blade was replaced by a LN Stanley Replacement blade, which was thicker and better steel. Actually, the main reason for replacing it was that the original blade was out of skew and I just could not fathom how to get the mouth-blade area right. The LN blade arrived and turned out to be slightly out-of-alignment as well! I have been living with this until now. It worked OK, not great, certainly not as well as I expected it to do so.

So now we turn to the latest mods.

(1) It was the new belt sander grinder (see “Jig” section) that awakened my plan to regrind the blade to the precise angle of the #140s mouth. I measured it with a Starrett protractor at 69 degrees (see Picture 3) and transferred this to the blade (see Picture 4). This was then ground to a precise fit.

(2) Since the LN has a cutting angle of 37 degrees (12 degrees bed plus 25 degree bevel), I planned to reduce the Stanley’s bevel to 20 degrees which, along with its 20 degree bed, would create a cutting angle of 40 degrees, not so far off that of the LN. But what happened is that I used a jig that I measure 20 degrees on a straight blade, and this ended up grinding the skewed bevel at 15 degrees! My first thought was to add a 5 degree micro bevel, but then I decided to try it out first and determine whether it would hold up planing hardwood. And it has (!), so the cutting angle of this #140 has dropped from 45 degrees to about 33 degrees (20 for the bed plus 15 for the bevel minus a couple for raising the mouth) (see Picture 5).

All this was to be carried out initially on the original Stanley blade before modifying the LN blade. As it turned out, the LN had not (yet) been touched.

**derekcohen** · 21st February 2005, 11:18 PM

Part 2

Was it worth the effort? How does this modified Stanley #140 perform?

In Picture 6 it may be seen that the mouth is very tight. But the proof of the pudding is in the eating, as is said. I cut a tenon with my trusty Disston #5 (12” tenon saw), cleaned up the shoulder a little with my Stanley #93 shoulder plane, then set to work with the #140 (with side removed). The result was effortless curlies. See Picture 7. Does the LN do it as well as this?

Regards from Perth

Derek

**vsquizz** · 22nd February 2005, 12:33 AM

Derek, Thanks for the terrific post. If one was to stumble on a #140 in fair condition in a car boot sale what do you reckon is a fair price??.

and...

Whats wrong with your chisels?

Cheers

**derekcohen** · 22nd February 2005, 01:01 AM

Hi Squizzy

I just did a quick search on eBay (USA). The average price of a complete, decent condition Stanley #140 is around $85 (USD). Then again a new LN version is $185 (USD). See http://www.lie-nielsen.com/tool.html?id=140

They do occasionally come up on eBay (Australia), and sell for about $150 AUD.

The other use I have put mine to is in planing (shaping and smoothing) raised panels. With the skew blade they are the only plane to use (if you want smooth) if you are working across the grain.

Regards from Perth

Derek

**Dan** · 22nd February 2005, 02:33 PM

G'day Derek

How do you measure the Bevel on a skewed blade?
Is the protractor rule parallel with the sides of the blade or at 90 degrees to the angle of skew? Depending on how you do it your plane may have a cutting angle less than 33 degrees.

**derekcohen** · 22nd February 2005, 04:34 PM

How do you measure the Bevel on a skewed blade?

Dan

I really wasn't sure what to do since I planned to grind a 20 degree bevel to replace the 25 degree that was on both the Stanley and LN. So using the existing bevel as a template was not much use. I had a template set up for 20 degrees but this was for a straight blade. Grinding side on clearly reduced the bevel angle by 5 degrees (I could check this afterwards easily enough).

You are correct to say the cutting angle is less than 33 degrees when the plane is in use since the blade is skewed. But probably only by a matter of a few degrees.

The easiest way to remedy the situation is to add a 5 degree microbevel, but I am not inclined to do this at this time.

Regards from Perth

Derek

**derekcohen** · 24th February 2005, 08:37 PM

I received a fantastic sharpening strategy from Brian Buckner (on another forum and by personal email) that I thought others here would benefit too from the info.

Regards from Perth

Derek

"Derek,

Great posting on your rehab of a #140. Lots of great tips that also transfer to tuning planes in general.

I read through the postings that followed and saw the mention of an alternate method of finding the correct skew/angle to grind your blade. While I agree with you that using an ink marker to transfer the mouth skew is clumsy I would like to offer a variation of that method that works quite well for me (I traveled down this same "tuning a #140" path a few years back).

In order to find the exact skew angle of the blade (to then grind your cutting angle to) simply lap (lightly) the sole of plane with the blade in and extended for a light cut. (I do this on a piece of 220 Sic paper on a flat surface). No need to lap very much as the first few strokes will knock the leading edge of the iron down in line with the leading edge of the frog and in plane with the sole. Remove the iron and look at the edge. You should see a flat that has appeared where your cutting edge should be. I then grind my bevel such that the cutting edge removes this flat (or just up to it - not beyond!). Finish in the normal manner at the stone and bring the edge up fine. It will be perfectly aligned with the leading edge of the frog (rear portion of the mouth).

Once you have the blade correctly sharpened set it up in the plane to take a light cut such that the edge is cutting evenly all the way across it's leading edge. At this point you can then adjust the leading edge of the mouth with a file to make the opening in front of the cutting edge even. Obviously you must be judicious here since you don't want to go crazy and open the mouth too much.

I use the above method when doing the final tuning after building my planes - skew mouth as well as straight. It works perfectly every time and it is not subject to any error that can "creep in" when transferring angles with a measuring device. While skewed mouth planes present this particular challenge so do bevel up planes with very tight mouths. If the iron is not ground just right it's impossible to get an even cut.

Hope this helps.

Best regards,

Brian Buckner (in Tallahassee"

**JDarvall** · 31st August 2006, 07:05 PM

I just won a #140 on ebay. First one I've ever had.

I noticed this old thread of yours at the bottom of the screen, and have had a look. Good one alright.

Have you since bought the lie-nelson version so you can make a comparison ?

I'm playing with the idea of attaching a depth stop, fence and knicker to mine, to cut tennons from scratch...uno, not just for trimming. No saw.

Feel it would work well with that small size. Makes me wonder why the lie-nelson version hasn't a nicker installed.

Any ideas ? Haven't heard from you in a while.

**derekcohen** · 31st August 2006, 07:18 PM

Hi Jake

I have not bought the LN version, although I have been tempted. If I were to modify a Stanley #140, I'd look at the latest version of the LN, which has a new nicker design (you'll like this one). I do like the idea of a fence on once (for dovetails - another story).

Yeah I have been a little quiet - just too much on the go at present. I do have a few reviews in the wings, but even these have been on hold for a while.

Regards from Perth

Derek

**derekcohen** · 31st August 2006, 09:45 PM

Hi again Jake

Using the #140 to cut tenons rang a bell (in regard to items written). I did a chapter on this in the LV Router Plane Review:
http://www.onlinetoolreviews.com/rev...outerplane.htm

Here are a few pictures in the sequence involved:

Mark out the tenon and saw the baseline
<center> <div><img src="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Joints/tenonmarked1.jpg" border="0" alt="" /> <br /></center>

plane out the waste using the baseline as a fence
<center> <div><img src="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Joints/Stanley140cuttingtenon-1.jpg" border="0" alt="" /> <br /></center>

Finished tenon
<center> <div><img src="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Joints/Stanley140cuttingtenon-2.jpg" border="0" alt="" /> <br /></center>

Obviously, this works best with slimish tenons.

Regards from Perth

Derek

**Mirboo** · 1st September 2006, 12:10 AM

Apricotripper,

Attached is a picture of the new style nicker on a Lie-Nielsen No. 140. The Lie-Nielsen No. 140's used to have the option of a cloverleaf style nicker but now they all come with one of the little circular nickers as standard.

If you were thinking of retro-fitting your Stanley No. 140 then the new Lie-Nielsen nicker looks to me to be a lot like the blade off a Tite-mark marking gauge. You can get spare blades for the Tite-mark from Lie-Nielsen Australia for $9.00 each.

http://au.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=MARK

**derekcohen** · 1st September 2006, 12:57 AM

Ian

Somewhere in the recesses of my brain I had the memory that the centre hole for the LN nicker was off-centre, which would permit it to be rotated to adjust for depth of cut. But it is not so - perhaps that was just my expectation when I saw a picture of the round nicker (which was changed from the #78 type), that is, that is the way I would have done it. Mmmm ... maybe I then have a modification for LN?

Regards from Perth

Derek

**Mirboo** · 1st September 2006, 01:18 AM

Derek,

On my LN 140 the centre hole for the nicker isn't off centre but the circular nicker has a flat spot on it so that you can rotate the nicker such that the flat spot lines up with the sole with the result that the nicker is effectively retracted. Your idea of an off centre hole makes sense though. Perhaps you should give Tom a call. Instead of a Millers patent plough plane we could have a Cohen patent skew rabbet block plane with depth adjustable nicker.

**JDarvall** · 2nd September 2006, 02:37 AM

Thanks Derek for the pictures and links ( you get around ! , very professional looking links by the way....no dirty fingernails either)

And thanks too Ian for the picture and idea. See a lot of the LN140 from that angle. I like that spare blades idea. All that would be left to do is drill a countersink hole (off angle a touch) on the drill press.....which sounds easier than my usual method of routing a groove with a end mill bit.

So tell me.....if its got a nicker....that means you should be able to cut those tennons without a saw altogether.....have you found the chance to try yet ? ...curious how well it works.

Would still mean marking out a bit....thats where I was thinking a depth stop would be handy too, for cutting many tennons uno.

....and tell us about that long non-adjusting side fence.....thinking could use it to aid planing an edge square.... have you tried that with end grain ?

**Mirboo** · 2nd September 2006, 10:43 AM

Jake,

I haven't had my 140 for long and so far I haven't tried to cut a tenon without using a saw. I don't see any reason why you couldn't though. A depth stop would probably be useful if you were using it like that.

I haven't used the fence yet either. I have only used the plane to clean up saw cut tenons and the skew blade means that it does this well.

The fence has a couple of holes in it so you can screw on an auxiliary wooden fence. I don't see why you couldn't screw a nice deep auxiliary fence to it and then use it for squaring off an end. The skew of the blade should result in the same type of cutting action you get with a ramped shooting board.

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