Thread: The ultimate dovetail saw

Andreas - I use a couple of dovetail saws I made myself, but I guess that's not an option for everyone! In my view, there are some features that make a saw excellent for cuting dovetailss. First is a not-too-big blade with an appropriate weight of spine. The spine should give the saw a little heft, and add enough rigidity to the blade, without being excessive. A sharp & properly-set saw needs very little pressure to cut.

I also prefer a thin blade - my favourite is 0.4mm thick, which gives a fine kerf which is easier to keep to the scribe line. I think most of the commercial saws have 0.5mm blades, which is ok. Not as nice as 0.4, but a bit more rugged, & maybe that's why they use a slightly heavier gauge.

The handle is the part that no commercial saw I've seen gets right, IMO. They mostly use an open handle design, which is a nice shape, but the grip angle is too shalow for a saw you usually use with your forearm up parallel with the bench. (I assume most people raise the cutting point well above bench height). If the grip is more 'vertical' to the tooth line, it makes the saw more comfortable to use, and more controllable, because your wrist is in a more relaxed position. The grip angle on all the more famous brands is more suited to working at bench height. The handle on the Pax might have a better grip angle (only seen pics, not used it) but looks a crudely-shaped for such an expensive bit of kit.

Finally - tooth pitch is important. For all-round use on furniture-size dovetails & small tenons, about 15tpi is a good compromise. If you regularly cut material 10mm or thinner, a finer pitch might be better, but accurate sharpening is a bit harder with small teeth.

A review I read recently gave the Adria a bad mark for sharpness out of the box, which was a bit of a surprise. I guess any saw is going to need re-sharpening at some stage, & that's where the crunch comes. If you can't do it yourself, make sure you find someone reliable to do it....

Cheers,

BD and I got one at the same time - he got an Adria and I a Spear and Jackson. Both of us are happy - with no sharpness problems.
Cheers,
Jim

Hi Andreas

Ian and Jim are more knowledgable than I. And then there is Ray, who is probably the most involved of us all in backsaws - his website is here. Hopefully he will pop in.

If you are a relative beginner to dovetail saws, then it would be helpful to read the review of the Veritas, which is probably the Best Bang for your buck to be found around (with the exception of this amazing dovetail saw I got from Ian ... but you would have to beg even more than I did ... no, just kidding, it was a gift). Anyway, the review goes into some detail about what to look for in a dovetail saw.

The Veritas dovetail saw comes in both 14 ppi and 20 ppi.



The review is here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolRev...vetailSaw.html

Ian's saw (just to tease) ..



And this is a Wenzloff, probably my favourite. Beautiful balance and thin plate ...



Regards from Perth

Derek

Hi Andreas,

It depends on how much you want to spend, but my two favourites would be

Wenzloff and Sons Kenyon Early Kenyon Dovetail Saw



Two Lawyers Tool works Two Lawyers Toolworks: Zinkensägen - Dovetail Saws



Klaus and Pedder will custom make to suit your hand measurements for a perfect fit.

I think the Wenzloff is the best value for money you will find.

Regards
Ray

Hmmm, looks like I have to recant. From the Wenzloff pic immediately below the Rock-oak handled saw Derek has shown, it looks like the grip angles are very close to the same. So Mike at least would seem to be 'coming to grips with the grips' on his dovetail saws. I think I have lowered my handles a little more since your model, Derek, but in any case, it looks a lot more comfy than the higher angles on the opposition models.

I guess I would agree that the Veritas saws are about the best bang for buck (as with so many Veritas tools), but golly, the Wenzloff Kenyon comes a close second - that looks like a really nice little saw!

Cheers,

Edit: Ray - I haven't held a Two-Lawyers saw, but that grip looks a tad thin to my eye, - almost circular. I like the handle to fill my palm a bit. But you seem more than satisfied, so it must feel ok?

Originally Posted by IanW

Edit: Ray - I haven't held a Two-Lawyers saw, but that grip looks a tad thin to my eye, - almost circular. I like the handle to fill my palm a bit. But you seem more than satisfied, so it must feel ok?

Hi Ian,

It fits like a glove... but then again I gave Klaus my hand measurements, so that might have helped

That said, I agree the pictures do look skinny, but it's not that way in reality.

I'd post it to you for a trial, but not today... Josh was using your saw this afternoon to do the 45 degree mitered dovetails on the blanket chest, it was just the right size for the job

Regards
Ray

Originally Posted by RayG

I'd post it to you for a trial, but not today...

Better not do that - it might get lost in the post (on the return trip ) I'll call in, one of these days, & we'll give it a good workout...............

Hmm, that little saw isn't optimised for d-tailing, but it certainly is small, & there are times when small is beautiful. I was recently doing some intricate stuff where even my smallest d-tail saw felt a bit clumsy, so it looks like I will have to add one more saw to my 'user' cohort. Darn!

Since I started making my own, I have steadily drifted towards smaller saws. At first, I tended to copy saws I had, all but one of which were 'finds' and selected more on price & availability than on any inherent quality of the saw. Early on, I made a 10 tpi tenon saw with a 300mm by about 80mm blade, which turned out exceptionally well, & used it a lot, for a while. It still gets an occasional workout, but for tenons on stock narrower than about 60mm, I tend to reach for a smaller saw that I have come to like very much. A similar thing has been happening with my old 'workhorse' d-tail - it has slipped to the back of the cupboard because I favour a thin-plate saw (about 220mm x 45mm blade, 3/16 thick spine) made from some of that 15 thou plate you sent me. This is close to my 'ideal' dovetail saw (for the present.... ).

The one exception to my 'smaller is better' trend is the 350mm 'halfback' modelled after the Disston 8 backsaw. I made this on a whim (it just looked interesting) but find I use it a lot. It is a 'big' saw but doesn't feel clumsy. I put it down to the shape, which puts the bulk of the weight around the rear half of the saw. Can't figure out why these are not more popular.

But who knows? I might start making a lot of big stuff, like the new bench I've been thinking about for some time. Next thing, I'll be making monster saws.

Cheers,

Wenzloff custom made saw
Attachment 178490

Looks beautiful, fits well and cuts well.

A custom made saw will allow you to specify a lot of things including the hang of the saw which I think is important.

But not a quick alternative...if you have waiting time them give Mike a call.

Originally Posted by Andreas87

Hi.
I’m thinking of getting myself a professional dovetail saw. So i was wondering what dovetail saw do you own, why did you chose that one and what is the advantage/disadvantage of that saw ( feel free to add pic).
If you are drooling over a saw please show us that one too





Ps: any opinions of the adria or pax saws are appreciated!

I don't like the handles on PAX saws -- they're too angular and therefore uncomfortable in use
I much prefer the more rounded profile found on Adria saws and those from Veritas and Lie Nielsen and the custom makers like Two Lawyers, Mike Wenzlof, IanW

you may care to browse this site http://www.backsaw.net/

lastly, how a particular western saw hangs in your hand will have a great influence on what YOU think of that saw -- all other things being equal (tooth pitch, kerf width, sharpness) it's the hang that will most influence your opinion of a saw

I have a Lie Nielsen dovetail saw, gift for my 18th, I love it. BUT I'll admit I have probably only used 5 or so times since owning it, nearly 3 years.

Since making my own dovetail saw/handle for a Uni assessment, I havent even taken the Lie Nielsen out of the box, but it still a lovely saw.

I enjoy having both a Western and an Eastern saw, pull or push cut. Bit of variety.

Originally Posted by jimbur

BD and I got one at the same time - he got an Adria and I a Spear and Jackson. Both of us are happy - with no sharpness problems.
Cheers,
Jim

Brain's gone. I meant a Pax not S and J.
Cheers,
JIm

I always wanted to try my hand at cutting dovetails. I sent for the Standard Dovetail Saw, 14 tpi and a set of 10 narex classic bevel edge chisels. Then of course I had to send for a Grizzly T10010 10" wet grinder. Then I had to order some nice hardwoods. I just hope I don't start wishing to do something else.....I just watched utube and realize I need water stones and flatting plate

I don't know if it is a competitive price but there is a Veritas 20tpi on ebay at the moment for $88 buy it now. Postage from the UK would add a bit of course.
Cheers,
Jim

I paid 65.00 at Lee Valley for mine. It is a 14 tpi but is better for 3/4 woods. The 20 tpi is good for thinner wood