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  1. #46
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
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    back in Alberta for a while
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    68
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    Quote Originally Posted by lightwood View Post
    A significant aid is understanding what happens when, and this is VERY important, a plane, a line and a point intersect with each other. (when curves intersect a whole 'nother world opens up)
    It can't be emphasized enough how much a help it is to have more than a couple on the bench to assist.

    The bed angle for a shoulder plane is around 20 deg, but here is where most folks brain starts to explode....are the left and the right bedding angle on a skew mouth plane the same angle from the base??
    Before you read the next post, see if you can work it out just visualizing it in your head. That is something I've tried to teach. If you've got it, or can get it, making stuff becomes an order of magnitude easier.
    OK I'll have a go

    for me, the bedding angle should be measured at 90 degrees to the line of the plane's mouth. For a plane with no skew this will be the same as measuring the angle parallel to the long axis of the plane.

    Then, while the cutting edge is skewed relative to the long axis of the plane, as is the mouth, the angle the bed makes with the sides of the plane -- provided the sides are parallel to each other -- is the same, and the angles either end of the blade are supplementary -- i.e they add to 180 degrees.
    (From memory it's 5th or 6th grade geometry, but someone else can look up the curriculum.)

    I visualise it by extending the bed beyond the sides of the plane, the angle made by the bed on the outside face of each side of the plane is the same as the angle made on the inside face of the opposite side, which is the same as the angle made on either side of the plane's sides . If the angles weren't the same, the lines representing the angles relative to the sides of the plane would converge, which is not allowed for parallel lines.


    BUT, if there's a plane maker's convention about measuring bedding angles ... I don't know what it is.
    regards from Alberta, Canada

    ian

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  3. #47
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Caroline Springs, VIC
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    Peter, you are talking about a compound angle, correct? For example if you wanted a 20degree bed angle with a 5 degree skew. On a table saw, tilt the blade to 5 degrees, set your miter gauge to 20degrees/70degrees. Then the only question that needs to be answered is "how many would you like sir?"

    So you will end up with 3 easily measured angles. 20degrees along both sides, 5 degrees across the bottom width, and i dunno...2 degrees or something across the back width of the plane.

  4. #48
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Melbourne
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    1,139

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuffy View Post
    Peter, you are talking about a compound angle, correct? For example if you wanted a 20degree bed angle with a 5 degree skew. On a table saw, tilt the blade to 5 degrees, set your miter gauge to 20degrees/70degrees. Then the only question that needs to be answered is "how many would you like sir?"

    So you will end up with 3 easily measured angles. 20degrees along both sides, 5 degrees across the bottom width, and i dunno...2 degrees or something across the back width of the plane.

    Kuffy,
    I was wondering when the compound miter saw analogy would come up.

    Edit sorry had a brain explosion there ... TABLE saw that should be!!!

    You got it.
    I'm doing the new thread now, and have a pic of the saw, and some pine blocks ...yeah, how many do you want?

    Funny how when you point your head at something, the simple answer might be right in your workshop next to you.

    Cheers,
    Peter
    <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <woNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]-->

  5. #49
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    1,139

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    Quote Originally Posted by ian View Post
    OK I'll have a go

    for me, the bedding angle should be measured at 90 degrees to the line of the plane's mouth. For a plane with no skew this will be the same as measuring the angle parallel to the long axis of the plane.

    Then, while the cutting edge is skewed relative to the long axis of the plane, as is the mouth, the angle the bed makes with the sides of the plane -- provided the sides are parallel to each other -- is the same, and the angles either end of the blade are supplementary -- i.e they add to 180 degrees.
    (From memory it's 5th or 6th grade geometry, but someone else can look up the curriculum.)

    I visualise it by extending the bed beyond the sides of the plane, the angle made by the bed on the outside face of each side of the plane is the same as the angle made on the inside face of the opposite side, which is the same as the angle made on either side of the plane's sides . If the angles weren't the same, the lines representing the angles relative to the sides of the plane would converge, which is not allowed for parallel lines.


    BUT, if there's a plane maker's convention about measuring bedding angles ... I don't know what it is.

    Ian,

    I'm starting a new thread, and will try and explain it without a word of geometry and maths.

    Cheers,
    Peter
    <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <woNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]-->

  6. #50
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Caroline Springs, VIC
    Posts
    1,645

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuffy View Post
    Peter, you are talking about a compound angle, correct? For example if you wanted a 20degree bed angle with a 5 degree skew. On a table saw, tilt the blade to 5 degrees, set your miter gauge to 20degrees/70degrees. Then the only question that needs to be answered is "how many would you like sir?"

    So you will end up with 3 easily measured angles. 20degrees along both sides, 5 degrees across the bottom width, and i dunno...2 degrees or something across the back width of the plane.
    Don't listen to me, I have no idea I tells ya! It has been brought to my attention that it isn't quite as simple as just tilting the blade to 5 degrees and setting the miter gauge to 20degrees. Ya gotz to account for the tricky compound miter. So the finished angles will be 5 and 20 degrees, but off the top of my head you need to set the miter gauge to 20degrees and the blade tilt to about 4.7 degrees.

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