Thread: Using a Record 405 as a kerfing plane

Ingenious!

I assume you have to fit a fairly deep sub-fence?

Originally Posted by Chief Tiff

I assume you have to fit a fairly deep sub-fence?

Yes, a deeper fence is needed to give an adequate depth of cut. I could have drilled the blade to give half inch cut depth below the skates when using the standard fence but decided I wanted the option of a deeper cut.

Found the reference for the site where I first saw this idea. Unique Tips For Hand Tools : Another Meaning of Hybrid Woodworking: The Stanley 55 "Saw Plane"?

Regards

Jim

I made a kerfing plane & just cut up a cheap hardpoint saw for the blade, but find it's too fine a pitch & clogs up. The Luban plough plane comes with a kerfing saw & looks to be a fairly course rip blade. https://www.workshopheaven.com/quang...ugh-plane.html

The Blackburn tools kerfing plane blade has very deep gullets. Blackburn Tools - Rebate saw-plane parts

Good stuff Jim, nothing better than doing a bit of tool enhancement, imo!

Couple of comments:
1. What are you going to use to complete the cut after you've established the perimeter kerf? If you are going to use a bandsaw, or a bowsaw with a blade of much the same size as your conscript blade, no probs, of course. If you intend using a rip-saw with a 35 thou or thicker blade, the kerf made by the backsaw blade might be a bit skimpy.

2. I think you'll find sharpening to a rip profile will work better in this context than crosscut profile. Also, when you make long cuts along a board without the saw being able to exit & clear the gullets, clogging will be a nuisance. You can reduce clogging to some extent by using large teeth with correspondingly large gullets.

Whatever, I'm sure you'll soon work it out when you put it into action....

Cheers,

Originally Posted by IanW

1. What are you going to use to complete the cut after you've established the perimeter kerf? If you are going to use a bandsaw, or a bowsaw with a blade of much the same size as your conscript blade, no probs, of course. If you intend using a rip-saw with a 35 thou or thicker blade, the kerf made by the backsaw blade might be a bit skimpy.

I inherited a couple of old panel saws from my dad, a 22 inch 10tpi cross-cut saw and a 24 inch 6tpi rip saw, which are both the same kerf as the backsaw I used for the plane.

The older 22” saw is a Spear and Jackson. My go-to saws are usually S&J modern hardpoints because they’re cheap, disposable and work well but the kerf is considerably wider. The two modern Spear and Jacksons in the pic both bind in the kerfing plane cut.

Regards

Jim

A deeper fence is definitely required. With this I was able to angle the blade slightly to help start the cut.


deeper fence.jpg

The blade didn’t work very well at first in its initial configuration of 12tpi crosscut.
Once I changed it to rip it cut ok in my pine test sample.
Less tpi and deeper gullets might be an advantage but I found that the blade didn’t clog and was perfectly usable.


It was easy enough to keep the fence tight against the stock and get a uniform kerf round all four edges at the desired distance.

allround_kerf.jpg allround_kerf2.jpg


My rip panel saw then tracked in the kerfs without any deviation and I was able to quickly complete the cut.

ripping1.jpg ripping2.jpg


There was a bit of tear-out in the centre of the board when the two cuts met and it came apart. I was cutting in from two sides and was cutting quite quickly just to see if the saw would deviate from the initial edge kerfs.

cut.jpg



Still it could be cleaned up easily with a plane and certainly much better then I could have accomplished free-hand and also a more uniform thickness than any re-saw I’ve ever managed on my small bandsaw.

Conclusion, a useful tool for minimal cost.

Merry Christmas
Jim

I’m considering making a dedicated frame saw to use for resaw in the kerfs cut by the kerfing plane and have a few queries for anyone who has re-used the plates from hardpoint saws for other purposes.


I have a hand mitresaw blade, 600mm long 14tpi with hardpoint teeth, which I’d like to use in the frame saw because it's a wide blade with the same thickness as the plane blade.
(I know that a lot of people use bits of old band-saw blades to make frame saws but I don’t have any wide blades)
14tpi is much too fine for fast resaw so I’d like to change this.
Comments online suggest that softening the existing hardpoints would be difficult, the heat treatment required is complex and trying to do it with a torch could end up softening the entire blade. However the suggestion is that the steel beyond the hardpoints is still good quality.


My question is:

Rather than grind off the hardpoints and re-cut the teeth on that side - has anybody tried just flipping over a mitre saw blade and cutting teeth on the opposite side?


In theory this sounds like it should give a two sided blade much like some Japanese saws.


I have saw files and a setting tool so I should be able to cut coarse rip teeth on the back of the blade to use this for ripping and resaw. Flip the blade and the original hardpoint edge would be available.


Of course this all depends on the metal plate beyond the hardpoints being able to be sharpened and having set on both top and bottom edges of the blade might be a problem.
Is an equal set on both edges critical? If so, could a wide diamond plate be passed down the side of the blade to try to equalise the set?

Or forget about having a reversible blade and just remove the set altogether on the hardpoint edges with a diamond stone if this is a problem, I'd be more interested in getting some big rip teeth on the other side.

So really just the one query - is the steel beyond the hardpoint edge on a modern saw suitable for making a conventional saw ?


Regards


Jim

Originally Posted by jimhanna

....... So really just the one query - is the steel beyond the hardpoint edge on a modern saw suitable for making a conventional saw ? ....

Jim, I've re-purposed quite a few old hard-point saws of several different makes, & so far, they've all consisted of what appears to be pretty stock-standard spring steel of around the 52-4 Rc hardness that's suited to saw-making. The hardening of the teeth goes barely beyond the gullets, and the point at which it finishes is usually obvious from the residual blueing. Cutting off the teeth about 2mm above the bottom of the gullets is usually enough to put you into file-able metal.

To cut the teeth off, I use a 1mm cutoff wheel in an angle grinder. Clamping the blade between a couple of straight bits of 1/4" steel acts as a heat-sink and a guide for cutting a straight line. I've found you don't actually need a heat-sink if you cut cleanly & quickly, the metal doesn't get hot enough to soften, but it's good insurance, and I think advisable, particularly if you've not cut spring-steel plate this way before.

Sometimes, you will get a really hard nib where the cut-off piece breaks away at the end of the cut - it cools sufficiently quickly to harden, to the point it will make a file skate. If that happens, just grind the little hard nib away carefully, then you should be able to easily-enough draw-file the whole cut-line to straighten the edge & ensure that you're into file-able metal.

Couple of comments: You really don't need a blade to be more than 25-35mm wide at the most, on that length of saw. There would be no advantage in terms of straight cutting with a blade any wider, & the extra metal will just add to friction & drag. I'd suggest trying 4 or 5 tpi at the most for your new teeth, but it will depend what wood you intend to cut most often. Ditto for how much negative rake to apply, the softer the wood, the closer to zero rake you can apply. This will make your saw more aggressive in cutting, but a little rougher to use.

A 600 mm long blade will be ok for sawing boards of up to around 250mm wide. My rule of thumb for a frame saw is the blade should be twice as wide as the widest board you want to saw, & preferably, having about another 50mm each end, otherwise, the teeth don't fully exit the cut & clear themselves of sawdust on each full stroke.

It should be a fun project, & complement your kerfing tool nicely.....
Cheers,