Thread: The Veritas Shooting Plane - Reviewed

my head is starting to hurt

Originally Posted by IanW

Jim, we must have learnt different maths! Sliding the wood back against a stationary plane, or moving the plane against the wood is identical in terms of relative motion. My memory of vectors is too hazy to attempt a mathematical proof, but I think of it this way. Skewing is simply altering the angle the blade makes relative to the line of forward motion of the plane. With a skewed blade, you can keep the plane body straight & make a skewed cut, but with a straight blade you must skew the whole plane relative to the forward motion. I cannot see any difference whatever between the two situations, where the rubber is meeting the road. I think we best agree to just stick with own views of this. I'm a great advocate for "whatever works for you, works, with or without analysis..."

Not in this instance Ian with a ramped board. Sliding wood down a ramped board means its movement meets the blade at the angle of the ramp, slicing in fact.

In my flu induced stupor I haven't the energy to enter into (re)explanations but in general I agree with Ian.

Originally Posted by BobL

In my flu induced stupor I haven't the energy to enter into (re)explanations but in general I agree with Ian.

In general you're right but in this instance I introduced another dimension (axis) as an example of what would have to happen to make it a slicing cut. I imagined the wood sliding down the ramp hence meeting and continuing to meet the blade at an angle.

Originally Posted by Ball Peen

So we're in agreement then. If I present the cutter at a skewed angle to the job, it's a skew cut. Planing corner to corner in line is not a skew cut,
corner to corner out of line ( skew ) is a skew cut.

Yes ... I think.

I think that the problem lies with the work "skew". We should be using "slice" or "sheer cut".

Now when a square blade runs into work held at an angle, such as on the ramp, it still cuts on the square. Only a blade that is skewed can slice.

Think of it this way: you need to trim the end of a dowel that is sticking up from a board with a wide chisel. If you try and push the chisel straight at the dowel it encounters a great deal of resistance. So now you change angle and try again from the side - nothing changes if the blade continues to hit the dowel square on. So finally you use the chisel with a slicing action, holding the blade at a skew and drawing it along the face. Aaahhh ... that's better!

Get it now?

Angling a board on a jointer with a straight cutter does not cause it to cut at a skew. The board is still presented to a square blade. Only a cutter that is skewed will sheer or slice the wood. Ditto a #51-type shooting plane.

Regards from Perth

Derek

I present my cutting edge to the job at a skewed angle so I WILL get a slicing cut, that's the whole point. Do you get it now?

When I pare a dowell, an octagonal or square peg, I use a 40mm #3 fishtail gouge and slice from 3 sides ( I don't know anyone
who would try and push thru, that's crazy talk). This gives me a small raised flat in the centre that I'm very fond of. This is, of course, on a pre-planed surface.

Some yobbo in future will naturally sand it flat along with any hand plane finger prints.

Originally Posted by Ball Peen

( I don't know anyone who would try and push thru, that's crazy talk).

I think that was the point Derek was making ... using it as a counter-example ...

Other than fully acknowledging that the topic isn't that important ... just interesting in so far as I had spent some time thinking about this question a while back when the same thing got mentioned ... I suspect the politician or professional scientist might define his way out of trouble (Bob? )

I'm suggesting that when the direction of travel of a cutting implement is not 90^o to the alignment of the cutting edge then we can refer to that as a skew cut.

skew shooter b.png

Of course I am happy for anyone to reject or improve that definition.
I also acknowledge that the best planing path might be dictated by woodgrain - which we are ignoring in this theoretical exercise.

--
When we were in 1st year physics we had an air table ... some oversized pucks with a white centre ... a strobe light and a polaroid camera.
We'd put the lights out, start the strobe, open the camera shutter and send two pucks into each other.
We were left with a black photo with white dots indicating where the pucks were every 1/10th second or something, and our job was to verify conservation of momentum by calculating speeds and directions before and after.

My picture of 'planing direction' occurs to me a bit like that. Put a green flourescent dob on the handle of your #4 ... or a piece of wood going through a thicknesser ... and no matter which way they are oriented, the green dob/dot will move in a straight line (assuming the orientation is not changed).
So the body carrying the sharp edge (or else the wood) is moving in a straight line - the direction of travel.

And then the angle of the cutting edge can be determined to be 90^o to the travel or not.


Paul

Paul, the point being made was to be patronizing in the extreme. This "skew " cut is at the heart of everyday woodworking. It's the main game, we always look
for the slice option. Bench chisels, carving tools, planes, scraping, it just comes natural after awhile.

When I got my main tool kit together in the 70's there weren't tool reviews. It was all word of mouth. Ulima, Record and Stanley were king. Fast forward
to 2005 when I got my first computer. The complex but essentially simple craft of furniture/ cabinetmaking became something I hardly recognized. Plenty on doing it by hand but not much on plumb, square and level. Not much on building to a specified size in a good time. Forget the commercial imperative, it's very satisfying doing a top job, the right size in good time. That has always been the heart of it. So I always ask myself...." would I hire this guy? Can he teach me something? Can he do the work right, on time ? " I think that is why you will find some very jaundiced views on this online woodworking caper. I know, this is an amateur forum, go away and leave it to the amateurs and " the one eyed jack is king. "

I'm teaching myself luthiery online and from my personal library, so I'm in the same boat as many of you. Not only does an instrument have to look good, it has to sound fantastic. Early on many pros were online but were run off by the people who had built 4or 5 guitars and knew it all. These days not many top builders are online.

Bill, that's a salutary response. I have a bit of a dual personality where these questions are concerned. I started at uni (over 50 years ago) in mechanical engineering and have an interest in how tools work. However, when it comes down to practicalities I always end up with the tools that have been proven in practice over many generations. At school we used a shooting board with a wooden jack plane. The results were entirely satisfactory. In later years my FIL gave invaluable advice. He was an old style cabinet maker and the number of tools he used at home would make Chris Schwarz seem like a profligate. After all, for a professional, time is money and looking for the ideal tool is wasting it as often as not.

An interesting and somewhat esoteric debate.

I think Jimbur's response is an admirable summation of what eally
happens with people's thinking.

I often look at all these tools and drool, I think that is partly due to the fact
that many newly released tools are "designed" and don't they look pretty!!

Hi,

I have received this plane just this evening with the PM-V11 blade. I am going to make myself a shoot board now.

Prior, I have also purchased this Lee Valley Tools - Important Announcement with a toothed blade.

I can actually fit the above toothed blade to this shooting plane too I have been using the above jack plane with the toothed blade for limited "shooting".

Thank you.

...behai.

Originally Posted by behai

Hi,


I can actually fit the above toothed blade to this shooting plane too I have been using the above jack plane with the toothed blade for limited "shooting".

Thank you.

...behai.

Low angle shooting and toothing , where do you find this helps in your projects behai ?

I am not sure yet... I just found it slides through a little easier than a normal blade.

Originally Posted by auscab

Low angle shooting and toothing , where do you find this helps in your projects behai ?

I have not tried it on the shooting plane yet.

Regards,

...behai.

Originally Posted by Ozziespur

I jumped on LV website & saw the introductory offer of USD315.00 (not inc shipping obviously). Just out of interest I looked at the LN #51 on the LN Australia website (Henry Eckert) and it's AUD630.00 (plus shipping) !!
.

Stumbled onto this thread a little late.

Often wonder how some businesses go about setting their prices. Generally LN and LV prices are similar, but not always, and that depends on where you live......

The LN #51 is now listed on their site at US$500 plus exchange and freight, whilst Henry Eckert in Adelaide has it at Aus$630 freight free. I have had excellent service from him, and quite competitive pricing!

The LV shooting plane with the sexy PM-V11 blade is on their site at US$345 (the intro offer has finished, and their is a lengthy wait for delivery) plus delivery costs. Cannot find anyone who sells it in Oz.

The LV has a skewed blade, PM-V11 metallurgy and a slightly narrower blade; both LN and LV usually are excellent products.

Why is there such a price difference?


Fair Winds

Graeme