Thread: Once there was three saw vises.

I've always thought the jaws should flatten out and make contact along the full length. The most recent metal saw vise I used was a Grammercy & it had concave jaws that flattened out when locked so that there was essentially full contact along the entire saw, not 'points' of contact. I don't think I'd like usinjg a vise that made contact at only 2 or 3 points - sounds like a recipe for a lot of screeching!

My own small saw vise is all wood (including the screw). It has a couple of replaceable jaw inserts which I added partly because they do cop a few hits from files & will some day need replacing. It's pretty difficult not to hit the jaws if you file with 'slope' unless you set the tooth-line way above the vise, which makes for uncomfortable filing. But I decided filing with slope just adds one more angle to the mix that one has to try & keep constant & the benefits are debatable at best so I rarely do that & the jaws are holding up remarkably well & will probably outlast me. I made both inserts flat & parallel to begin with, but found they just didn't hold a saw firmly enough for my liking so I planed a small concavity in the front one, just enough that it flattens out nicely when clinched up against the rear jaw. After that it held saws very firmly and combined with the good damping effect of wood, there is very little or no screeching when filing: SV2.jpg

I noticed from its date stamp that pic was taken more than 16 years ago, - it looks a bit more used now!
Cheers,

The following pics are of the jaws of each

Disston: The first pic is the jaw ends just touching. The gap is well over a millimeter. 20240421_213518.jpg

Second pic is as far as dare crank the locking screw up as it's starting to feel back and there's still a substantial gap. I can feel the pressure that's exerted on the threads and my gut tells me its too much. Cranking it up like that multiple times will cause the threads to eventually strip. Even with oil it doesn't feel good. 20240421_213606.jpg

Paramo: You can see it when the cam is fully locked. It closes up nicely on the three places. I had a closer look and don't see any evidence of filing so I think the gaps were cast into the jaws. 20240421_213631.jpg

Woden: The castings are similar to the Paramo in that there's raised sections in the castings. In this case there's only two, one at each end. But when locked the jaws flex easily enough to close the gap in the middle. 20240421_213636.jpg. I've filed two back saws on it so far and haven't found vibration or screeching to be an issue anywhere along their lengths. I'm no expert of saw sharpening, but I do know the sound a file makes and feels when it's cutting nicely.

Depending on which stays, and which go there's a few mods I would incorporate into them. The Disston definitely needs a lot of filing to eliminate the pressure on the locking screw. And I'd make a sintered bronze screw to replace the original steel locking screw. On the Woden and Paramo one thing I noticed with the cam lock is dry cast iron rubbing on dry cast iron isn't good. I've seen a few vise where the cam and seat have become so worn the vise no longer hold the saws well. I'd epoxy a 0.5mm aluminium sacrificial plate to the cam seat to eliminate the cast iron wear.

So far the Woden seems to be the best one for actual use.

Seems odd to me that they'd make the jaws close on 3 points only, but it may well be they were done that way. Matt (Simplicity) described the same situation with his Disston saw vise a few years ago & also concluded it was as-made, so it seems that's the way they are. The general consensus with saw vises seems to be that the jaws should flatten out on closure & put pressure on the saw plate along the entire length, but if the 3-point grip is working for you, then obviously, it works. I find with my own vise that even a tiny bit of looseness in the grip anywhere along the tooth line allows that section to flex & makes consistent filing difficult.

Because of the thick wooden jaws on the vise above, I can't grip the part of the blade under the handle on small saws, leaving anything up to 40mm of blade hanging in the air so unless I take the handle off, which is a nuisance with split-nut bolts as they never seem to go back as neat & flush as they were, I have to jury-rig a clamp & a couple of offcuts from below to dampen the 'free' section of blade. With several small saws that need regular sharpening, it's a bit of a pita, so I've long thought about getting a metal vise with jaws that can grip small saws fully, or at least to within a few mm of the end. Some day I'll get around to it, but based on your experience, I'll want to try before I buy!

Cheers,

Hi Ian

I have a cast Wentworth saw vise and too can struggle to grab the last bit of handle end of small saws.

Could you add a couple of flat steel bars or a small angle to your saw vise that extend out the sides for the these saws?


Regards M

Originally Posted by MartinCH

....... I have a cast Wentworth saw vise and too can struggle to grab the last bit of handle end of small saws.

Could you add a couple of flat steel bars or a small angle to your saw vise that extend out the sides for the these saws? ...

Hi Martin, great minds think alike (again!). Been thinking about doing just that for the longest time, but not with steel, I have some aluminium bar that I think might be better than steel in this application. It should be relatively easy, there is already a rebate along the tops of the jaws for the wood inserts, so all I need do is make metal inserts, about 25-30mm longer than the wooden ones to do the job (I think). But I only ever think about it when one of my little saws needs attention, which isn't often because they don't get as much use as the larger 'regular' saws which fit comfortably in the vise as it is (they should, 'cos I made it to fit them!). Some day I'll get the round tuit, and hopefully, before my vision gets so bad I can't sharpen saws any more...


Cheers,

Hi SD,

all your pics show the jaws closed without saws, what are they like with saws in them, are there any gaps then??

Graham.

Originally Posted by IanW

Seems odd to me that they'd make the jaws close on 3 points only, but it may well be they were done that way. Matt (Simplicity) described the same situation with his Disston saw vise a few years ago & also concluded it was as-made, so it seems that's the way they are. The general consensus with saw vises seems to be that the jaws should flatten out on closure & put pressure on the saw plate along the entire length, but if the 3-point grip is working for you, then obviously, it works. I find with my own vise that even a tiny bit of looseness in the grip anywhere along the tooth line allows that section to flex & makes consistent filing difficult.

Because of the thick wooden jaws on the vise above, I can't grip the part of the blade under the handle on small saws, leaving anything up to 40mm of blade hanging in the air so unless I take the handle off, which is a nuisance with split-nut bolts as they never seem to go back as neat & flush as they were, I have to jury-rig a clamp & a couple of offcuts from below to dampen the 'free' section of blade. With several small saws that need regular sharpening, it's a bit of a pita, so I've long thought about getting a metal vise with jaws that can grip small saws fully, or at least to within a few mm of the end. Some day I'll get around to it, but based on your experience, I'll want to try before I buy!

Cheers,

From memory also, the casting was very very easy to file, some castings I’m lead to believe can have a real tuff crust,then they are easily filled, but not the case when I filed up the Disston I had.

I think it was the effort, an really wasn’t that much trouble to do.

Cheers Matt.

Originally Posted by macg

Hi SD,

all your pics show the jaws closed without saws, what are they like with saws in them, are there any gaps then??

Graham.

The Woden and Paramo close up on the saw plates well enough, though the Paramo has one deficiency I didn't know about till the other day. The Disston can but I have to crank the locking screw down way tighter than I'm comfortable with to get it to grip along the entire length of the jaws. There's a rough feel and sound when it gets cranked down at a certain point, tightening and loosening, that can't be good even with lube. I'm certain I could fix it's short comings but will give it some more thought as to whether I want to be bothered or just off load it.

I've thrown them up on marketplace, not expecting anyone to bite as the prices I've put on them are ridiculous, to see where the price point is. If the Disston doesn't command a decent price, then I'll look at modifying its short comings. I.e. Drill out the locking screw to 1/2" and make a self-lubricating bronze screw and file the jaws so they work really nice.

One thing I never saw till the other day was the Paramo won't take a backsaw. The fork opening is too narrow for the backs to fit. It's been a while since I went on a saw wrecking terror and must have only files the crosscut and rip saws with it. And then used the Woden, without thinking, for the backsaws.

Originally Posted by Simplicity

From memory also, the casting was very very easy to file, some castings I’m lead to believe can have a real tuff crust,then they are easily filled, but not the case when I filed up the Disston I had.

I think it was the effort, an really wasn’t that much trouble to do.

Cheers Matt.

How are you finding the locking screw? I don't have a lot of confidence they hold up well when cranked down too much.

Originally Posted by The Spin Doctor

How are you finding the locking screw? I don't have a lot of confidence they hold up well when cranked down too much.

It seems to be holding up ok, but I unfortunately haven’t used it enough too really give an in-depth opinion on it,

Cheers Matt.