Thread: 2325

Is there anything wrong with filing the earth prong down and just plugging it into the existing socket in the garage?

No.

What's the worst case scenario?

You will trip the circuit breaker or blow the fuse. Starting up an electric motor needs a lot of current, so if the motor is too large, this will happen. Unless you – foolishly – replace the circuit breaker with a higher rating one, there will be no harm done.

Happy sawing!

Eric

Originally Posted by Ilifa

Is there anything wrong with filing the earth prong down and just plugging it into the existing socket in the garage?

No.

What's the worst case scenario?

You will trip the circuit breaker or blow the fuse. Starting up an electric motor needs a lot of current, so if the motor is too large, this will happen. Unless you – foolishly – replace the circuit breaker with a higher rating one, there will be no harm done.

Happy sawing!

Eric

Haven't been on this forum long have you Ilifa? Check out some previous threads on giving electrical advice.

Originally Posted by fatty500

Well, I've decided to get a 2325 TS. Someone told me they come with a 15Amp plug. Is there anything wrong with filing the earth prong down and just plugging it into the existing socket in the garage? What's the worst case scenario? It'll only be used for cutting sheet goods, mostly 9-12mm ply.
The lable says 3hp, but apparently, it's more like 2hp when in use. I'm no electrician, but it seems reasonable to run 1500w with the existing wiring. Don't alot of household appliances like heaters etc. run at higher wattages?

Any thoughts?

Fatty, It's a table saw that has been designed, by the manufacturer to use a 3HP motor and run on a 15A circuit. Just pay an electrician to install a 15A outlet.

OK then, explain this to me.

I have a TS10L tablesaw, 3 hp motor, came from C/tec with a normal 10A plug, runs happily on a normal 10A circuit.

I have an 8" Woodmaster jointer, 2hp motor, came with a 15A plug, runs happily on a 10A circuit.

As it happens I have now got both running on a 15A circuit, but something is not quite right with the way machines are supplied.

Have a look at machinery showrooms such as C/tec and plugs are all over the place, without any (seemingly) rhyme or reason.

fatty500, I run an MJ2325 table saw (and ML392 3HP thicknesser) in my shed off a "ten amp" circuit. I say "ten amp" because all the sockets are 10A style. The wiring is good and the shed has a dedicated circuit with a safety switch, so I'm pretty confident its OK. I just checked the circuit breaker, it's actually rated at 80A.

My kit came with 10A plugs, and works just fine.

You should actually be very careful with this stuff though. Our house had been renovated when we bought it. One of the things that has been replaced is the hot water cylinder. The new cylinder is clearly larger than the old one used to be, but whoever did it didn't check the fuse board. It was connected to an overloaded old-style fuse. This winter, it didn't just blow the fuse, it BURNT the wiring and fuse holder - melted it. The sparkie had to replace it with a circuit breaker. We were pretty lucky, that could have started a fire.

So... the saw will work OK on 10A, but be careful of the other stuff - especially if you have household fuses rather than circuit breakers.

Worst case scenario is actually that you burn your house down if your wiring is insufficient.

Worse still, you file the plug, something unrelated goes badly wrong ie someone electrocutes themselves on the saw and you could end up on a serious charge!

jisk - I would not be so confident- if your TS is connected to single circuit with a 80A breaker then I would seriously look at getting it changed. Fortunately most saws will have a safety switch that will cut out at about 20 A but if you get a short, 80A is a sheet load of current which can start a serious fire.. Operating a handtool on a 80A circuit can lead to some serious meltdown and health issues before the breaker trips. I would look at breaking that into 2 x 35A, and 1 x 10A circuits. Was it installed by an electrician?

Originally Posted by jisk

.... I just checked the circuit breaker, it's actually rated at 80A.

Ditto what Bob said. An 80A breaker is not a good thing on that circuit. Just means a lot of power, and heat, can get through before it trips.

And for the original question, and discussion. Been there done that search the forums. My previous opinions are summed up by NCArcher. Just put in the 15A circuit.

Evidenced by my choice of TS, I was looking to save a few bucks (both by going for the cheaper model saw, and just plugging it in), and doing it safely. But if there's a reasonable risk of stuffing up the existing wiring, then I guess I might have to get a sparky in.

In a review of table saws I gave some information on legally dealing with this issue without going to a lot of trouble and/or expense.

Interestingly, my Jet JTAS 10XL-1 (you know best TS on the planet as voted by BigShed) is 3 HP, the plug has stamped on it 15 Amp yet it is a 10 amp plug. Go figure.

Now in my assessment I stated that you could buy a 15 amp extension cord, plug the 15 amp plug from the TS into it. Remove the 15 amp male plug from the extension cord and replace it with a 10 amp male plug.

It is quite permissable for anyone to make this change to non-fixed wiring. In this way, you will not void the warranty on your TS by chopping of the plug or filing down the earth pin.

You have to consider the total load on that circuit - the potential 15 amp from the TS plus anything else from other attached powerpoints on that circuit - exceed about 20 amps in total and the CB will trip.

So what does an electrician do when then install a 15 amp outlet for something like a TS....Essentially you get a new circuit with 2.5mm twin and earth (rated to 20amp) and a dedicated circuit breaker set to most likely 20 amp - cause that what he has in the truck (looking in truck now You will get a nice little powerpoint that says...15 amp on it with plenty of room for the larger earth pin.

All you are really doing is ensuring that the device is getting its 15 amps...and not having to share it elsewhere....

If you attempt to draw more than 20 amp on that circuit then it will trip.

I'd check that the circuit is at least 15 amp - most likely 20 amp.

The common cable diameter throughout will be 2.5mm sq....except of course for your 15 amp extension cord which will be 1.5mm sq....go figure hey!

If you go to the trouble (perfect world solution) of having a dedicated circuit installed i would recommend a 20 amp CB/RCD combo breaker.....

As always - this information is just that - information - you are in the best place to decide how to proceed....

No one here will pay for you TS if the motor dies (or anything else for that matter).

PS More qualified electricians are fatally electricuted each year than DIYs.

My only real advice is to ditch the idea of this 2325 thing and buy a Jet instead.

Regards

Spartan

No this is not sparta!

Originally Posted by BobL

Worse still, you file the plug, something unrelated goes badly wrong ie someone electrocutes themselves on the saw and you could end up on a serious charge!

jisk - I would not be so confident- if your TS is connected to single circuit with a 80A breaker then I would seriously look at getting it changed. Fortunately most saws will have a safety switch that will cut out at about 20 A but if you get a short, 80A is a sheet load of current which can start a serious fire.. Operating a handtool on a 80A circuit can lead to some serious meltdown and health issues before the breaker trips. I would look at breaking that into 2 x 35A, and 1 x 10A circuits. Was it installed by an electrician?

I assume it was installed by an electrician, it was done before we bought the house.

As I was the first to respond to this thread, I knew there would be some negative and some misleading reactions. Let's look at some:
Haven't been on this forum long have you Ilifa? Would have to be a little sarcastic.

I just checked the circuit breaker, it's actually rated at 80A. The circuit breaker on the wire in to the switch/meter box is 80A to cover the total house load. Surely there are separate breakers for lights, power, etc.

It was connected to an overloaded old-style fuse. This winter, it didn't just blow the fuse, it BURNT the wiring and fuse holder - melted it. An overloaded fuse is a blown fuse. Do you know if the fuse wire was the correct rating? The previous owner may have fitted a heavier wire. With the passing of time, the light or power wire-to-screw contact at the fuse block can relax a bit; this lighter contact results in heating up and eventual arcing and burning the wire off. The same applies to burned power points. Overloading didn't burn them, a lose connection did.

I have been playing around with things electrical since childhood, a long time ago. What I use is practical experience, not just what someone wrote in a book. There are lots of myths floating around. Just think of the one – some still believe it – that flourescent lights take so much power to start up that it is better to leave them on!

The laws of physics do not respond to emotion. If a correctly-rated circuit breaker is installed, it should be impossible to overload the circuit.

Of course, if you have concerns about your shed wiring, by all means have them checked by an electrician.

Eric

Just realised I forgot to mention that I agree with Spartan, and I'm just adding to what he said.

Eric

Originally Posted by Ilifa

I have been playing around with things electrical since childhood, a long time ago. What I use is practical experience, not just what someone wrote in a book.
Eric

There's been some pretty bloody shocking advice given here.
Do yourself a favour and get a dedicated 15Amp circuit wired proerly by a qualified electrician.Get him to explain why this is the only thing to do.
You will be in more strife than Ned Kelly WHEN something inevitably does go wrong. Your insurance, for starters, may not be worth the paper its written on because of your parsimony. You may have to answer to state electricity authorities, workplace heath and safety. Need I go on???