Thread: 4-in-1 Combination Machine - opportunity of a lifetime?

I have 3 Felder Hammer machines. All are excellent. They appear to last forever - not uncommon to see a 20 year old machine appear on scumtree or machines4u.

However, Felder are not shy about charging. For every little nut and bolt (this is not a joke - I was charged per screw when I had my silent power cutter head fitted). So that initial quote is merely the beginning!

I don't have any experience with SCM machines, but if a 2nd hand 3P small combo came up, I'd grab it. They have a good reputation on the internets (so it must be true!)

Have you seen this thread? MiniMax c30 genius

Joel (JK_Qld) should have a bit more experience with the machine now so maybe a PM to him would help.

Originally Posted by aldav

Have you seen this thread? MiniMax c30 genius

Joel (JK_Qld) should have a bit more experience with the machine now so maybe a PM to him would help.

Thanks. I did see this thread and I'm re-reading it.

I would definitely like to afford the lab 300. I'm considering the Robland HX310 Pro also. Just waiting for a quote.

Cheers.

-Scott

Hi Scott, I have a C26, which i have enjoyed using for 4 years after using a much older Lab22 combination. I think that the quality is generally excellent, although the dust collection could be improved. i have made some modifications including adapting a INCRA 1000SE mitre arm to the sliding table and fitting a wooden stand with 4 locking casters as i too have space and access problems.

Regards Owen

Originally Posted by WoodyOwen

Hi Scott, I have a C26, which i have enjoyed using for 4 years after using a much older Lab22 combination. I think that the quality is generally excellent, although the dust collection could be improved. i have made some modifications including adapting a INCRA 1000SE mitre arm to the sliding table and fitting a wooden stand with 4 locking casters as i too have space and access problems.

Regards Owen

I did seriously consider (maybe still am) the C26 Genius (at ~$2k less), and adding the outrigger. This still brings it in well under the budget of the C30. Maybe spend the difference on tooling / blades etc?

A major consideration in the decision should be after sales service and warranty and in Sydney which may not be the same as where you live Felder is the better of the two in my own personal experience. Felder also makes it possible to add any additional accessories such as the outrigger, scriber blade etc later on if you find the need. I added the outrigger to my K3 quite some time after buying the machine due to a job I had to do and it cost me no more to do that than if I had specified it in the original sale.

Originally Posted by Chris Parks

A major consideration in the decision should be after sales service and warranty and in Sydney which may not be the same as where you live Felder is the better of the two in my own personal experience. Felder also makes it possible to add any additional accessories such as the outrigger, scriber blade etc later on if you find the need. I added the outrigger to my K3 quite some time after buying the machine due to a job I had to do and it cost me no more to do that than if I had specified it in the original sale.

Fully agree with Chris here, this is the reason i held out after receiving multiple quotes from Robland, SCM etc the features for the machines were impressive but was hard to find out what their aftermarket service was like and costs for parts specifically outside of " terrible and expensive" i think i found some forum posts here and elsewhere online that described this. Hammers current catalog was great at explaining the part numbers and compatibility with Felder or Hammer machines. With my 2016 model C3 31 i was able to find the parts needed and a quote from Syd sales office arrived splitting the items to what could be sent immediately vs back order which is due to ship shortly.

admittedly i haven't actually seen the hammer showroom in Sydney but i knew the owner of my first combo machine so was able to see it first hand and use it to understand what i was buying. I think this could go a long way in helping you make a decision. Understand the distance between us but id be more than happy to have you over to show you my machine, consider it like a car purchase, a $100-200 in fuel to verify your thoughts on a machine before placing an order of a machine over $10k+ could pay off.

Cheers,
Nathan

Originally Posted by delbs

Fully agree with Chris here, this is the reason i held out after receiving multiple quotes from Robland, SCM etc the features for the machines were impressive but was hard to find out what their aftermarket service was like and costs for parts specifically outside of " terrible and expensive" i think i found some forum posts here and elsewhere online that described this. Hammers current catalog was great at explaining the part numbers and compatibility with Felder or Hammer machines. With my 2016 model C3 31 i was able to find the parts needed and a quote from Syd sales office arrived splitting the items to what could be sent immediately vs back order which is due to ship shortly.

admittedly i haven't actually seen the hammer showroom in Sydney but i knew the owner of my first combo machine so was able to see it first hand and use it to understand what i was buying. I think this could go a long way in helping you make a decision. Understand the distance between us but id be more than happy to have you over to show you my machine, consider it like a car purchase, a $100-200 in fuel to verify your thoughts on a machine before placing an order of a machine over $10k+ could pay off.

Cheers,
Nathan

Hi Nathan, Big thanks again for your time on the phone yesterday running through a bunch of my questions and thoughts. This is one of the reasons why I love being a member of these forums with people giving their time and experience. Thanks to others as well for replying with their thoughts.

My preference would of course be to buy the Hammer machine for a bunch of reasons. The downside is the significant price difference, and finding one locally, as there isn't a showroom in or around Brissie that has the C3-31. As we discussed, finding one on the 2nd hand market would be great, but as luck normally has it, the perfect machine appears either on the other side of the country, or right after you have purchased a different machine. In my view, it's a big $ gamble buying site unseen (or relying on phone photos), and there are significant costs / risks involved in getting a machine freighted interstate or driving / flying to collect when you aren't sure it meets your expectations.

If anyone near Brisbane wants to sell me their C3-31 and upgrade it, give me a call! (worth a try!)

Cheers,

-Scott

Hi Scott, I don't own a combo machine but do have an SCM table saw and 2 Hammer machines. It's my understanding that combo machines were developed to fit in the very small spaces that Euro workshops often are. The main reason to get one (other than cost savings) would be to have a spindle moulder available.
I've had no trouble ordering extras for my SCM saw, I bought the mitre gauge, extra clamp and extra support table late last year.
The saw I have (SC4E) is several levels above the Hammer equipment I own (A3-31 and N4400), at the time I was shopping the saw was around the same price as a Hammer k3 comfort.
If I was buying again I would not have bought the Hammer gear.

Originally Posted by Shines

My preference would of course be to buy the Hammer machine for a bunch of reasons. The downside is the significant price difference, and finding one locally, as there isn't a showroom in or around Brissie that has the C3-31. Scott

PM ronboult a member here, I think he has one and he is on McLeay Island.

Originally Posted by Chris Parks

PM ronboult a member here, I think he has one and he is on McLeay Island.

Thanks Chris. I have another member who's offered to show me his and he's right around the corner from home. Did I mention how I love these forums?

Hi Scott,
I can vouch for the quality and support from SCM having used a MiniMax CU-300 classic combo for some years which had an excellent saw,spindle moulder,jointer,thicknesser and boring table. When moving to a smaller premises with a 42 M2 workshop I switched to the smaller Minimax SC-2 panel saw (quite compact) and a separate Woodfast thicknesser and a small jet spindle moulder. I breakdown slabs on the SC-2 and my Hammer N-4400 bandsaw fitted with a Tungsten tipped blade. The key with small spaces is to fit mobility bases or wheels on each machine to make it easier to process larger pieces. If you are doing small work the smaller Minimax C-26 is also something to consider. I have also just organised a new SCM heavy duty band saw again for breaking down larger timber pieces for my woodworking club and not only is the machine first rate but the SCM service was also excellent.
Cheers,
Paintman

After a long mental safari, which took me from sawstops to Chinese sliders to hammers and finally to the SCM's, I narrowed down to the C26, C30 and lab300. I eliminated the 26 as I think I would miss the extra width in the thicknesser (I currently have a 12in lunchbox)
I was still undecided until I saw the sale at carbatec and went to see the C30 in the flesh and ordered one. From what I saw, the unit is well machined, feels robust and will fit well in my single car garage. The lab300 would have been too big unfortunately. If I had the space, I would have bought the lab.
cheers
Leo

Having owned two difference packages of the hammer c3 31 i certainly appreciate the longer slider (2050mm) on the model i now compared to approx 1200-1500 of the perform model from memory. The Lab300 seems to have 1600 which seems pretty good. Definitely consider your floor space dimensions in front and behind it to get as long of a slider as you can possibly fit and on wheels incase it doesnt quite fit those longer lengths that need to poke out the roller door to machine