Thread: Advice

Originally Posted by Midol

G'day guys,

Just getting into wood working recently. I actually failed it at HS as I never paid attention as "when would I ever need it" and I've now learnt that I need it very, very often.

Anyway, my next project is floating shelving .

? You are putting shelves in your swimming pool??

Seriously, Midol, welcome to the forum and the craft. Looking back, I bought a lot of junk gear before I knew enough to work out what I really needed. I bought the wrong stuff, and always of too low a quality. It might be worth your deferring purchase of a big ticket item such as a table saw until your needs really clarify.

As to your current project: Joinery shops can buy MDF by the pallet much cheaper than you can buy individual sheets. Your local joinery shop will probably supply and precision cut to your requirements for little more than you would pay for the MDF sheets. You just have to supply them with an accurate written cutting list.

Cheers

Graeme

I know a few people with table saws who make the initial cuts to large sheets with a circular saw before wrangling it onto the table saw for the smaller pieces. There is no reason why you can't do the whole lot with a circ saw.

Peter

For cutting full sheets of MDF, unless you buy a saw with a sliding table attachment (goodbye $3,500) you are not going to get much joy out of a table saw.

To cut it with a jigsaw, the el-cheapo way is to have two sheets; offset the top one by whatever the edge-of-footplate-to-blade measurement is from the line you want to cut, clamp sheets together, and use the top sheet as a guide edge.

You could also look at a circular saw - they work a better with a long straight edge to guide them, or you can get commercial guide rail systems:

https://www.woodworkforums.com/f13/ez...lar+guide+rail

Midol,
I agree with the others. If you are playing with 2.4m x 1.2m sheets and don't have a sliding table saw, you are better off getting the materials 'Cut-to-Size' at a cabinetmaker. IMO it is worth every cent for someone else to risk their fingers, cut exact width and length shelves and have a better finish. Oh yeah, the shelves will be square too! Yes you can do it yourself but if you haven't got the right tool for the job - why bother?

However, if you need an excuse to buy the MLT100 Makita and are hellbent on doing it yourself, I would suggest that you rip down oversize shelves with a circular saw and then (with your neighbours help) finish them to the finished width on the table saw so that you are not juggling a full sheet. I guess it all depends on how good a finish you require?

Cheers
Bazz (still with all ten fingers )

Pretty much what the others said. I try not to use MDF or particle board because of innate prejudice and difficulty in handling it.

When it is the best option I get someone else to cut it for me. The gear you need to cut it accurately and without chipping is too expensive for the home user. I get much more pleasure from handling natural timber so am happy to have somone else deal with the part I don't enjoy.

Welcome Midol - I agree with the advice given above. Even most Bunnings stores will (for a price) cut sheet material. It's much too difficult "at home" I reckon.

soth

G"day Midol and welcome to the heavenly habit of woodworking.

I have plenty of gear but I go to a joinery shop to both buy and cot up large sheets. Simply can't beat a panel saw.

Check out what sort of glue you will need before spending money on unsuitable stuphph.

Also, I suspect that you are going to use torsion box construction for making the shelves. If not, you should. Google to see what and why.

Thanks guys.

Just got home from work so just had a quick skim read so will re-read again this evening.

I actually wanted to avoid cutting it myself - I got some stuff cut at bunnings a few weeks back and they were all ~1-2cm out and was afraid a cabinet maker or similar would charge a ton of the cuts.

I don't want to buy any more tools so if the pros (you guys) tell me that it'd be better for me to pay someone to do these cuts for me then that's what I'd prefer to do.

I did originally want to use solid pine for these than MDF and I can't remember why I changed my mind. I am sure there was a good reason or perhaps there wasn't.

Anyway, will have another read soon.

Kk guys,

Done some thinking over a not so sleepy day (insomnia + night working = fail).

I am mostly interested in building things for around the house.

TV Cabinets, Drawers, Dog related things (kennels) and then the snake enclosures and I will be building ALOT in the next few years (probably around 10-15). Also want to build a new desk.

For these, would it be worthwhile to get a table saw? I don't *need* one. I've just been told they're the most useful tool in your shed.

I've only got a cheap circular saw that needs replacing so maybe if I get a circular saw and give it a go with that (and get the big stuff cut at a cabinet maker) then decide in a few weeks/months if a table saw would really benefit me more than some other tool.

Replace the cheap circular saw with a slightly better one (I've got one of the AEG ones, and it's quite nice so far - was about $170 from the big green shed) and look at the options for a guide rail for it. (or buy a festool saw and rail system - there are lots of people who like them) That'll let you make good straight cuts, in just about every sort of material.

Trouble with a table saw is - you really want one that starts at about $1,500 - that gives you something nice and heavy (damps vibration) with decent table area; otherwise you'll have to build extra benchtops around it to support larger pieces of wood - and that means bye-bye to roughly one carspace worth of shed space.

It also means that you will always have to take the material to the saw, so there's lots of lifting (and MDF is heavy!!).

MDF will deflect more than a hardwood if used for shelving; if you are not wedded to a particular finish, it might pay you to look at different materials.

Also - go the torsion box if you can.

Originally Posted by Master Splinter

Replace the cheap circular saw with a slightly better one (I've got one of the AEG ones, and it's quite nice so far - was about $170 from the big green shed) and look at the options for a guide rail for it. (or buy a festool saw and rail system - there are lots of people who like them) That'll let you make good straight cuts, in just about every sort of material.

Trouble with a table saw is - you really want one that starts at about $1,500 - that gives you something nice and heavy (damps vibration) with decent table area; otherwise you'll have to build extra benchtops around it to support larger pieces of wood - and that means bye-bye to roughly one carspace worth of shed space.

It also means that you will always have to take the material to the saw, so there's lots of lifting (and MDF is heavy!!).

MDF will deflect more than a hardwood if used for shelving; if you are not wedded to a particular finish, it might pay you to look at different materials.

Also - go the torsion box if you can.

Thanks mate, will go the circular saw. Is there any real reason to go for a mains powered saw over say, the LXT saw Makita has. I already have Makita Charges and Batteries and love cordless. The cheap circular is dads and it's hopeless. The Makita I should be able to grab for $200-$250 or so.

$1,500 is a touch more than I wanted to spend right now so yeah, will definitely go the table saw. I like to grab quality gear the first time round.

It might be best if I post up exactly what I intend to be replicating. The photo is attached, but what I was thinking of doing was having the shelf, then the frosted perspex or glass then another 1-2'' of wood and sandwhich the glass/perspex inbetween the two pieces and then drill the holes for the mounting brackets to go into through the entire piece. I'm not entirely sure if that's the best way to go about it but it's the only way I could think of doing it. The lights I'd just get a sparky mate to wire up.

I'm not locked into any kind of material, in fact I'll just go with whatever is the easiest to work with. AFAIK only books are going on the shelves and the brackets I'll be using will support around 70lbs so the wood only needs to be able to handle that weight. I've only ever worked with normal pine and mdf.

So now my current list is:
1) Makita Circular Saw (If it's decent, haven't researched yet.)
2) One of these: [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Eurekazone-SGS-1-Smart-Guide-System/dp/B0006M2QT0]Amazon.com: Eurekazone SGS-1 EZ Smart Guide System 100 Inch: Home Improvement[/ame]

I buy the ply sheets at the local panel supplier ( not Bunnies), then cut them 10mm oversize with the Makita 185mm circular saw and a straight edge. I have just taken delivery of a ProGrip rail to make this a lot easier. Have a look at the thread on this item here.

I then whack these sheets lengthwise through a table saw to make sure they are all the same width dimension as required. Am working on adding my old Triton sliding table extension to my TSC - 10HB to make this easier with the bigger sheets in future. Am still required to crosscut the sheets with the Makita to the exact size. Cross cutting sheets where the sheet is much wider than it is longer on the cutting line is a big no-no on a table saw if you don't have a sliding table /sled type arrangement. Too easy to twist the sheet in to the blade and get kickback.

Can thoroughly recommend the Makita 185mm saw- it is the workhorse of the local tradesmen here

regards,
Jill

PS the thing I really like about the little Makita is that it is exactly 100mm from the edge to the cutting line - makes calculations so much easier, and reduces the risk of error

Originally Posted by Midol

I am mostly interested in building things for around the house.

TV Cabinets, Drawers, Dog related things (kennels) and then the snake enclosures and I will be building ALOT in the next few years (probably around 10-15). Also want to build a new desk.

For these, would it be worthwhile to get a table saw? I don't *need* one. I've just been told they're the most useful tool in your shed.

I think you'll find that in addition to the occasional help from a cabinetmaker, you will need a circular saw, a mitre saw and a table saw. Yes, you will be able to get by without one or two of them but life will be sooooo much easier for you if you have the lot.

Makita makes a 'plunge' circular saw and guide system, not as good as the Festo TS55/TS75 but it may be a few hundred dollars cheaper depending on where you buy. With that ( and a couple of saw horses) you can cut sheets to exact width, and using the plunge feature you can cut square hatches in the middle of sheets if that is important in any of your projects.

Makita also make a very good Slide Compound Mitre Saw for cross cutting the shelf strips to length - you can cut up to 12"/30cm in one go at 90 deg. and up to nearly 24"/60cm if you flip the board & line up the saw blade with the first cut.

That will run you up to near $2000, which is around the cost of a table saw, but its easier to store. It will do almost everything a table saw will do except dados - get a router for that.

I have a Hitachi 12" SCMS and a Festo TS55 with long rails & have hardly touched my table saw since. Although I have made things from MDF, I try to stick to ply (its lighter & bends less for the same thickness) and solid timber ( still lighter & even stiffer).