Thread: Arbors, Blades, Washers & a Cheeky Question

Hi George

Great Buy! For $90 bucks I couldn't walk away at that price either. The restoration job looks fantastic.

For table saws that don't allow for the use of two spanners when removing the blade I had previously been told to lodge a piece of wood at the front edge of the blade to lock it in place. I've since read Paul Anthony's book (complete illustrated guide to tablesaws) and he recommends gripping the blade with a rag as the above mentioned method can apparently result in a bent tooth. I don't see how this could happen myself and wouldn't like the idea of gripping a blade with a rag. Another option may be to make yourself a 12 inch version of the milescraft blade changer out of ply which spreads the load across the teeth.

I think I may know why all the extra washers were on the arbor. The plate washer (outer washer) appears to only sit against the blade some distance from the actual hole on the blade (more than the 30mm hole). This would allow the arbor washer to wiggle loose as it is only being held in by the press fit. If it has enough room to move out of the blade under the blade washer side, the blade could end up being able to slide around (i.e up and down, back and forth) on the 5/8 arbor. The extra washers may be packing out the space under the plate washer to prevent this. This would also explain the tape you found. If you end up using an arbor washer, a 5/8 saw blade stabilser under the plate washer would also prevent the arbor washer from working loose.

As to getting a good combo blade I'll leave that to others to comment on as I use separate rip and crosscut blades. Sticking to a reputable company is usually a good bet (CMT, Freud, Diablo (Freud make), Infinity e.t.c).

Basically as outlined by Bobski, except that the washers either side of the blade are dished and both contact it well clear of the arbor bore. This is normal to provide stability for the blade and minimise the leverage that the rim of the blade can exert at the bore.

Blade stabilisers are larger machined washers that are sandwiched between the blade and washers either side for enhanced support and stabilty. However they tend to reduce the depth of cut capacity of the blade as sooner or later they will interfere with the insert or work before the blade is fully raised.

Looking at your post and the pics provided the saw appears to have either a 16mm or 5/8th inch spindle (very similar in real life), do you need to buy a blade with that sized bore if at all possible. The bore should be an clearance fit over the parallel part of the spindle inboard of the threaded section and the thread relief (shallow groove at inboard end of thread machined to give the threading tool somewhere to finish up when cutting the thread during manufacture). If you cannot get the blade you want with the correct bore size, you can bush down an oversize bore as with the supplied blade. The bush should be an interferance (tight) fit in the bore, and would then be self supporting provided that you are cautious mounting the blade. If you need to bush down just to get a blade, choose one with the bore closest to ideal size to minimise the bush size. Do not use packer washers/tape etc to secure the bush, if it won't stay put it is not suitable. Packers/tape etc can affect the dished washers grip on the blade and cause it to run out of true or move off centre.

Unless the unit is direct drive, the blade will run faster than the 2850RPM you quoted, as the the belt and pulley drive will step the speed up. The 2850 appears to have come from the motor plate as it is the standard speed for a two pole 50Hz motor. Arbor/blade speed is probably more likely to be in the 4000RPM region. New blades will probably be stamped Max RPM 6500 or higher.

Thanks for the reply gents. It goes without saying that input like yours goes a long way for newbies such as myself.

This table seems to be sized using Imperial measurements so I'll go with 5/8 for the arbor. I will confirm this once I pick up my calipers but I think it's a safe assumption. Unfortunately most blades at 12" in the States come with 1" arbors. Some have 5/8 but very limited selection. So from 1" to 5/8 we're talking about a 9.5mm arbor washer. Is this acceptable?

The more I think about it the more I'm starting to lean towards single purpose blades but for the sake of getting myself started on the cheap I'll go with a combination blade for now. The floor underneath the table needs to be concreted before I can bring all my other equipment and that's going to cost me a pretty penny so every dollar saved is a day closer to making a racket underneath the house.

Fitted the wings today. Here's a few more photos.

The plan is to add a router table to the left and eventually attach an Incra positioner and an Incra mitre.

8/


9/


10/

A 1 inch bore and a reducer should be fine as long as the reducer is an interference fit in the blade. Just beware that some bores in that range are metric (25mm) and others are imperial (1in/25.4mm). Just make sure you don't end up with a 25mm reducer in a 1in bore.

From the pics, you need a wall as well as a floor, or you will spend more time cleaning rust off than using the saw.

Originally Posted by malb

From the pics, you need a wall as well as a floor, or you will spend more time cleaning rust off than using the saw.

The plan is to build close off the whole sub-floor and possibly divide it in two down the road.

Last night I ordered a 10" blade. A Freud Premier Fusion with a thin kerf. I think it'll make a nice start to my collection. It has a 5/8 arbor which is why I went with the 10" as opposed to the 12" which has a 1" arbor. Down the road I'll get specialised blades as I figure out what I need (cut) most and they will probably be 12" to take advantage of the larger cuts should I need it.

I also purchased an Incra 1000HD which was on special. Won't be long now before I'm making a racket.

Thanks again for your help.

That looks like you got a good one there,as advised try to get a blade with the arbour size that fits.
A comment on thin kerf blades,there has been comment on the forum that thin kerf blades only have value if---

1.you have an issue with power of your motor

2.you do a lot of ripping to smaller size--save timber


3.a thin kerf blade does not have the stability of standard blades

4.you want to cut laminates


I found the last point to be an issue with me,I thought that I would get super smooth cuts but in fact I found little between them




The big problem i found was when I ripped a small amount (5mm) the blade deflected and jammed without cutting,no matter how slow I fed this was still a issue.
I changed back to standard and most likely will stay that way

Thanks for that feedback.

I have read about the thin kerf ones not being as stable. Guess I can only give it a try. I bought the blade as it was pretty cheap and it also came with a $30 gift voucher in effect making it sub $50. Can't argue with that price.

Regarding the stability, I did at one stage have the blade stablisers in my cart but removed them to get the order sub $300 and past the SWMBO. Perhaps they would be a good purchase to make this blade more useful. I'll see how I go.

I saw that ad 2 hours after it was put up and nearly shat myself, $90 for a cast iron table saw in good condition (i had been looking for a table saw for the last two weeks daily)...

But it looks like you're doing much better than I would in restoring it. Great buy and awesome restoration!

Sorry, I don't have anything useful to add to the conversation.

Got yourself a bargain there George!! Congrats on both that and the restoration.

Have you been in touch with Hare and Forbes in Sydney? I know that some H&F machinery has
had the same design for years..Give them a ring.

Thanks guys.

I received my blade and Incra 100HD Mitre and despite the misspelled product name on their packaging it works as advertised.

The blade lines up with the mitre slots and the arbor is perpendicular with no noticeable wobble. Fitting the blade was giving me a bit of a scare. It wouldn't go on at first but once I got the outer washers on there and tightened them it popped in with an audible crack. That gave me even more of a fright but nothing broke. It's a tight fit. Makes me wonder how an arbor washer will stay on if the fit is this tight. Glad I went with an actual 5/8 blade rather than use the washers. I'm sure they'll be fine but for a first blade the easier I make it on myself the better.

The cut is fantastic. I've never owned any tool that cuts this well. I was cutting bits of pine all night long. Haven't had the opportunity to throw something harder at it.

The 1000HD is a beautiful thing to work with. With minimum fuss I had it calibrated and making precise cuts. I couldn't be happier with it and am definitely saving for their table saw fence and adding a router table to the left of my saw.

Originally Posted by artme

Have you been in touch with Hare and Forbes in Sydney? I know that some H&F machinery has
had the same design for years..Give them a ring.

I did speak to them and they were very helpful. Thanks for the suggestion though.

To resurrect this thread for a moment. To clamp a blade I use two short bits of timber and a G clamp. One bit each side of the blade, do up the clamp and it is not going anywhere. Most of these type of saws have an internal hexagon in the shaft which an allen key fits and most of the time I drop the allen key hence the two bits of timber get used. Besides that it is far safer and when the nut gets really tight I can put a piece of pipe on the end of the spanner for leverage.