Thread: Bad things about table saw sliding table extension

Hi All

Well, a continuation of my "Panel saws are great" post...

There are quite a few photos, so I'll include them in additional posts to provide more detail. The photos here show the general arrangement in my workshop. In my "Panel saws are great" post... I was a little generous with the 6m x6m sized workshop I've squeezed mine into a space 5.7 x 4.9! It's hard to believe that the original builder of this house thought this (4.9m) was wide enough for TWO cars. (Two cars did fit, but ONLY JUST!).

For logistical reasons, the Blum hinge drilling machine had to go on the left wall. I made the custom bench and mounted it high enough for the outrigger table (supporting a 24 x 12 panel) to pass underneath. The adjustable stop can be positioned anywhere underneath the bench and still be rotated into and out of its active position. The panel saw blade is located 2.5, from the left wall. The puts the blade more or less central across the width of the workshop. As you will see in the photos (next post?) the saw can easily accommodate a 1200 wide cut to crosscut a panel/board in half across the width. I could crosscut a panel with the garage door down, but this never happens as the door is always open while I'm working in the workshop.

The photos show that the spacing is tight, but it is workable. Taking the outrigger table/support off the sliding table does provide much more "clear" space.

I'll provide more detail with the photos in the next post. I hope you find it interesting and perhaps encourage some of you to at least consider a panel saw.

Check out this David Stanton video for the TSO GR16. This device attaches to a Festool track to help in making square cuts on panels. I have no doubt this device and the Festool track are great, BUT the cost of Davids 2.7m Festool track AU$599 and the cost of the TSO GR16 US$149 is a substantial cash outlay. Remember, I paid AU$700 for my panel saw and is MUCH more convenient to use and easier to set up and work with it. I don't have to move and fiddle with the track to do a second or third panel edge, I just rotate the panel on the saw.

I did buy new blades, but I think that equates to the cost of the Festool circular saw. BTW the panel saw's 8hp motor makes it a breeze to slice panels, the proverbial knife through butter.

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Hi All

So, as you can see in the photos, when I remove the outrigger table, I have 1.3m space between the bench and the sliding table - plenty of room )

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I have contemplated installing my table saw's Incra mitre gauge. The problem is the bar that slides in the slot of the table saw. This bar is too wide for the t-slots in the panel saw sliding table. I considered machining the bar to make it thinner (and allow it to fit). But then it would be too loose for the table saw. I did contemplate the purchase of another mitre bar and machine one of them, but I may just make a small mitre bar (150mm) to enable the mitre gauge to clamp in the t-slot. There are other priorities before this, so the mitre gauge will have to wait.

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The panel saw can cut 1mm "veneers" from timber, but with a 3mm thick blade it's probably a little to wasteful for anything other than emergencies.

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So, you can see that the panel saw is a close fit within the workshop and the mobile (Festool top) bench/assembly table fits neatly in the corner between the sliding table and the cast base unit.

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The mobile bench was sized to fit under the sliding table. The gap is tapered because the panel saw is level, but the floor slopes toward the drain grate. (This workshop used to be the garage so the floor has to fall towards the front/garage door).

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I'm happy to answer any questions...

This would have won the largest saw in smallest space ratio contest.

Well, I must take back what I said about add-on slider attachments. They are not the same as a slider on a panel saw. The two concepts work differently. I understand that now.

In recent weeks I have done a ton of research, and then had the opportunity to compare the Sawstop Pro with slider attachment and a Hammer K3 at the recent West Australian Wood Show. In the end I ordered a Hammer K3 Basic with Professional fence (an upgrade) and the 1250 slider (upgrade on the basic 950).

This pic is the closest I could find on the web ...



What I learned was that sliders are not simply for cross-cutting - which is how I used my attached slider, and which is how the Sawstop/Harvey sliders are designed to be used. Panel saw sliders are for ripping as well. And this concept is just brilliant! It requires a change in mind set how one will use a table saw. The Sawstop is a beautiful cabinet saw, with exemplary build and finish. The Hammer costs a little more, so the decision was made based on more than simply safety.

The ripping method on the slider is well illustrated in the Fritz and Franz jig (in German) ...



The K3 I have purchased is really the most compact version I could find. There is no way I could fit a 2500/3000 slider in my workshop (half a double garage).

This is a great video of how a slider can be used. The saw is a combo machine. Ignore that and concentrate on the ripping and crosscutting ...



Any other comments and videos on using a slider?

Regards from Perth

Derek

Hi Derek

Great to see you are a "convert" Congratulations on your purchase I'm sure you will be thrilled with the K3's performance and capabilities. I enjoyed watching the videos you uploaded, I have used my panel saw for many of the operations shown in the videos. My "old" Lazzari Juno 3000i has many of the K3 features, but the K3 has some clever features I'd like to implement (if I ever get the to do list completed ) ). I must make myself one of those outrigger table trolleys, my (all steel) outrigger must weigh about 50kg (and it's awkward to hold when placing on the sliding table).

Panel saw sliders are for ripping as well. And this concept is just brilliant!

Yes, ripping is easier and generally more accurate than on a table saw, especially when ripping long pieces. Though its possible on my panel saw, I doubt if I'll ever need to rip 3m long pieces ) . Tapered ripping is also very easy!

I liked the "homemade(?)" accessory (in the first video) used to hold the pieces being ripped. This seems to offer quite an advantage when holding and controlling the timber (being ripped) on the sliding table. That's something very useful, though I think (for me) the handle is too far away from the edge being cut, I'd like to see the handle offset a little more towards the blade to help maintain the pressure on the timber nearer the edge being cut.

Thanks again for the videos and best wishes for the implementation of the new K3 )

very good purchase Derek! After some use you probably wont look at SawStop again

Here is another link for interest and education:

How to use a sliding tablesaw at SoloWoodworker.com

Regards from Perth

Derek

A bit of additional info on the F&F jig, in Germany they give them away as a safety aid at trade shows to anyone who wants one. I have made several, one with Incra flip stops on it and I haven't put a handle on one yet. My first one was two bits of 18mm MDF I rescued from the bin and it served me well for quite a few years. Using the F&F jig I have never had the need for hold down clamps except for bevelling the edge of a panel when the panel won't sit flat on the saw. Another link to a user who made his own....

Hi Derek,
congrats on your purchase I know you will be happy. The videos are great although I am of the belief that my SC-2 using the two hold down clamps on the slider is a safer option than the German hand held units that may not stop the timber from moving whilst cutting. I also make extensive use of a right angle support that I clamp to the slider cross bar that ensures timber pieces are kept square to the blade. This is quite important for smaller items such as bases and lids for boxes where accuracy is very critical. I also switch blades when ripping thick sections to a dedicated ripping blade but for small thin pieces I stay with the fine tooth blade.
Cheers,
Paintman

Well ... my K3 arrived today! It is not the Basic version I started off getting, but the Winner: 1250mm/48" slider and upgraded round bar/cast iron base fence. Felder through in the dado blocks, but I cannot see myself using this. I also optioned out of the scoring blade, as I will never cut melamine. I do not work with panels either.

Overall, the saw is compact - about half the width of the Sawstop Professional plus slider attachment. Perfect for my workshop (half a double garage).

It is plugged into a 15 amp socket. Runs like a (loud but smooth) sewing machine with the supplied 12" Felder 48 tooth combo blade. I am off to get a 10" Forrest 40 tooth combo, unless anyone has a better recommendation.



Regards from Perth

Derek

I would get the 12" blade Derek and make sure whatever you get is drilled for the brake pins. These saws or at least the two I have had experience with do not cut to a full 100mm depth even with the 12"/300mm blade for some reason even if Hammer says they do. In 12 months time you will wonder why you didn't buy this saw years ago. I see they have finally moved the on/off switch, the old location is a PITA to be honest. You should have got a ZCI to go with the dado blades, use that instead of the stock insert and the DE won't swallow thin off cuts.

Hi Derek

Why go for a smaller blade? I'd buy a 12" 60 or 80 tooth blade, you already have the combo blade, you don't need another combo blade with LESS depth of cut )

Chris, the K3 comes with one ZCI, and I bought a second one as well. Both you and Peter asked why a 10" blade and not a 12"? Peter, the reason is that the 10" blades are a lot quieter than the 12" (I have spun the 12" - it is not as loud as the old table saw, but it would be great if the level can drop a little). I tended to use a 10" 80 tooth triple chip blade for everything in my old table saw (even though it could take a 12"), so I know that a 10" would serve most of my needs. And I still have the 12" blade for thicker stuff.

The Forrest blades come with such a fantastic reputation. However I have not used one before. Chris, you have. Their website speaks of the 40 tooth being capable of glue-ready surfaces. How much is that advertising, how much is reality?

Second - Chris, is that the same fence as on your saw? If so, where does the fine adjuster fit? I do not have one yet and and am even debating whether it is necessary at all. Fine taps with the palm do it for me. Related to this is how to fit a Wixey digital scale - how did you fit yours? Any photos would be very helpful.

The last factor that came up was what to do to replace the router table which was built into the old table saw (the router table was rarely used, but was useful when needed)? The K3 in the photo below (which has a different fence and slider) has a half panel under the fence ...



It occurred to me that it would be possible to add a panel here, and site the router in that. Then the router fence could ride on the table saw fence. I would if any others here with a K3 have done something similar?

Regards from Perth

Derek

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The circled knurled knob on the side is the fine adjuster and and the other knob on the front is the lock for it. The large lever is the main lock of course but to use the fine adjuster the main lock is released and the small one engaged then turn the fine adjuster knob. With the Wixey there is no bumping or guessing or even trial cutting and that saves a heap of time.

I am not convinced about the noise, I would think that cutting timber with a 10" would be no less noisy when the carbide hits the timber than the 12" would be but I will try it later and see what happens. Is one ZCI metal and the other wood? In my experience the WW2 blade gives a glue ready cut but I expect your standards are somewhat higher than mine so I guess it is suck and see for each user. It strikes me that you will be run out of the handworker's mafia if you keep buying powered machines.