Thread: Should I buy a combination machine

Originally Posted by Albert

a 5 in 1 combination takes a lot of room and not flexible in operation when compared to saw/spindle + planer combo on castors. have you considered this option? easier to upgrade if you see something you like later. think Derek from Perth has this setup but in Hammer.

My set up is a Hammer A3-31 combo jointer-thicknesser; Hammer K3 slider with built-in router table; and Hammer N4400 bandsaw .... not one machine. I am very happy with this lot.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by derekcohen

My set up is a Hammer A3-31 combo jointer-thicknesser; Hammer K3 slider with built-in router table; and Hammer N4400 bandsaw .... not one machine. I am very happy with this lot.

Regards from Perth

Derek

I agree with Derek and the only thing I added was a small bandsaw that gets used more than I ever thought it would. I also have a mitre saw on a purpose built bench but the slider can be used instead or another thing that can substitute is a sliding sled on a bigger bandsaw which I find very handy for small stuff.

Originally Posted by Albert

a 5 in 1 combination takes a lot of room and not flexible in operation when compared to saw/spindle + planer combo on castors. have you considered this option? easier to upgrade if you see something you like later. think Derek from Perth has this setup but in Hammer.

Thanks to yourself and Derek and yes, that's why I added to this thread. I would love to setup a table saw with slider, a jointer, a thicknesser, and a spindle molder or router table. I would also add a bandsaw. This all needs to somehow fit in a 3.15m x 4.5m space. A dust collection system will also need to find a place. I am trying to imagine how I might grab a length of timber (I have a big supply under the house, mostly 3-7m hardwood lengths), maybe chop it down outside, bring it into a small space, run it through a jointer, then thicknesser, then maybe back to the jointer, then onto the table saw.

So as mentioned, I'm considering either a 4 (or 5) in-one combo such as an SCM or Hammer, or instead a table saw (Likely Sawstop) with a slider, a jointer (on a mobile base), a thicknesser (on a mobile base), [or a combo jointer/thicknesser on a mobile base] and a router table (either on a mobile base or set into the table saw).

It's hard to picture where everything would go in such a small space. Don't forget, I still need an assembly/clamping/work bench. I'd imagine I'd set a workbench at the same time height as table saw so it can double as an outfeed table. Whew!

I am on reply MK ll after bad battery management…

I have owned or used two marginal tablesaws, and owned three Felder Combinations. My advice would be to forget the morticing attachment as it prevents normal use of the planer (jointer), and it only makes elongated holes. You still then have to machine loose tenon stock. It really gets in the way, and I hate it so much I threw one in the skip.

Mortises are typically used in larger assemblies, and trying to balance a long stile or rail on the tiny x-y table of a combo slot mortiser isn’t easy. Better to spend your (same or less) money on a Festool Domino XL.

Thast said, the only other issue I have with combination machines is the saw/spindle moulder conflict of interest. Spindle moulders take some time to set up, and having to break down a set-up because you need to saw one more component is always a disquieting episode. I like combo machines, but I also have a stand-alone spindle moulder.

I do have an elaborate router table, and I have made many many parts on it, but I don’t use it anymore since I have S.M. Cutters and a power feeder. Spindle moulders are much better than router tables.

If you expect to use the spindle moulder only after all the project parts, and extras, have been dimensioned then you won’t have any problems. While I have more room than you do at present, I am very happy with a combo, bandsaw, SCMS and dusty.

Have you done some space planning?

Paper / cardboard scale cut outs?

That is a very small space to fit in everything you are looking at and be able to do anything with long boards.

I don't have a combo - from what I understand a combo needs to sit away from a wall or be able to be moved away from a wall easily.

I suspect the idea of spinning a whole combo unit to go from table saw to jointing / thicknessing is not practical. Just dealing with the dust collection might be a pain.

Originally Posted by Greg Q

I am on reply MK ll after bad battery management…

I have owned or used two marginal tablesaws, and owned three Felder Combinations. My advice would be to forget the morticing attachment as it prevents normal use of the planer (jointer), and it only makes elongated holes. You still then have to machine loose tenon stock. It really gets in the way, and I hate it so much I threw one in the skip.

Mortises are typically used in larger assemblies, and trying to balance a long stile or rail on the tiny x-y table of a combo slot mortiser isn’t easy. Better to spend your (same or less) money on a Festool Domino XL.

Thast said, the only other issue I have with combination machines is the saw/spindle moulder conflict of interest. Spindle moulders take some time to set up, and having to break down a set-up because you need to saw one more component is always a disquieting episode. I like combo machines, but I also have a stand-alone spindle moulder.

I do have an elaborate router table, and I have made many many parts on it, but I don’t use it anymore since I have S.M. Cutters and a power feeder. Spindle moulders are much better than router tables.

If you expect to use the spindle moulder only after all the project parts, and extras, have been dimensioned then you won’t have any problems. While I have more room than you do at present, I am very happy with a combo, bandsaw, SCMS and dusty.

Thanks for such a constructive reply. Yes I agree, it sounds like the mortiising attachment is a bit silly for most, as it sticks out right where you need to stand when running the jointer or planer, it’s apparently really heavy and tricky to take on/off (I found a thread where a guy made a trolly that it loads onto, but then you have to store that somewhere), and I’ve used a Festo Domino (smaller original version) and its fantastic. A mortiser would also prevent me butting the machine against the wall when not in use.

Ive never used a spindle moulder, and I certainly can see the issue with setup. It looks especially important to finish all cutting on the saw 1st. I suppose if that “one cut” got missed, it could be done by hand or on a bandsaw or something? It’s interesting that you don’t use your elaborate router table now that the spindle moulder is availablee.

Originally Posted by pippin88

Have you done some space planning?

Paper / cardboard scale cut outs?

That is a very small space to fit in everything you are looking at and be able to do anything with long boards.

I don't have a combo - from what I understand a combo needs to sit away from a wall or be able to be moved away from a wall easily.

I suspect the idea of spinning a whole combo unit to go from table saw to jointing / thicknessing is not practical. Just dealing with the dust collection might be a pain.

Thanks for the reply. Yes! I have just started with the cardboard cutout/graph paper (yes I’m old and analogue!) now that I have the dimensions of a few machines. Yes, like everyone on the planet, I want a bigger shed!

i also agree that moving machines is never particularly easy or ideal, and that dust will be a challenge. I am left with a few more questions:

- I have read that the “in-built” wheel/lever systems of SCS (and similar) machines aren’t great for moving the thing around. Conversely, I have also tried the Sawstop industrial mobile base, and it’s a breeze. Anyone had experience with either? I’m thinking that, if I were to get a combo machine, then I would need the ability to spin it 180deg (on occasion only) when working with long stock. A combo would also need to be stored against the wall, and pulled out maybe 600mm or more when in use.

- When not in use, does anyone use their table saw as workbench space? I had the idea of making some sort of outfeed table that could double as a “table top” over the saw.

- I would need a 1.5-2hp-ish extractor. I imagine I’d need extra length hoses to reach wherever I move stuff - I can see that as being a pain (dust ducting is bulky). I have ability to run rigid ducts up wall/over roof. How do people resolve that issue?

Man. Maybe I need a different hobby......
Mat

My personal take on an all in one combination is that it is a step too far and won't save enough space to be worth the problems it brings with it. Do cut outs for the slider of preference and a combination thicknesser/jointer against the full combination and you will get a better understanding of the space available. Another space saver can be using a cyclone instead of a conventional dust extractor as a cyclone without filters will occupy a square meter in floor space. An advantage of a stand alone slider is that the machine can be hard against a wall and work just as well as sitting in the middle of the workshop.

To spin in a small space you will need 4 castors. I don't think the factory SCM or Hammer options have this.
I believe the Hammer option has two fixed wheels on the saw and then a bar with castors that you jack the other end of the saw up and maneuver with.

Originally Posted by Chris Parks

My personal take on an all in one combination is that it is a step too far and won't save enough space to be worth the problems it brings with it. Do cut outs for the slider of preference and a combination thicknesser/jointer against the full combination and you will get a better understanding of the space available. Another space saver can be using a cyclone instead of a conventional dust extractor as a cyclone without filters will occupy a square meter in floor space. An advantage of a stand alone slider is that the machine can be hard against a wall and work just as well as sitting in the middle of the workshop.

Thanks Chris. This seems to be a popular approach. I’m also thinking that if I have a big session squaring up long stock, I could do this in the driveway if a combo machine was on castors.

Ill make cutouts and have a play. Could someone maybe send me dimensions of some combo jointer/thicknesser machines? Maybe chuck in recommendations (single phase).

I have indeed looked at small footprint extractors. Many units, even with filters, take up about 1sqm.

Originally Posted by pippin88

To spin in a small space you will need 4 castors. I don't think the factor SCM or Hammer options have this.

Yes I get the feeling it’d definitely need a version of something like Sawstop’s footpedal hydraulic lift mobile base. I have access to a toolmaker so could make/modify one....

Do you have any lips / gaps to deal with?

My SCM Minimax SC2 weighs 380kg or so. The combos weigh more.
Would need large castors to be able to get over any lips.

I found the following video useful when I was looking at my options.

Felder Hammer K3 dimensions, Walk around sliding table saw, can I fit a sliding table saw? - YouTube

I have an SCM SC2 sitting against a wall.
2.5m from wall to end of cross cut fence (width)
1.5m minimum width (cross cut fence and outrigger removed)
3.6 to 3.7m front to back space needed for full slider travel (1.6m slider travel)
- you can use part of the travel in a shorter space but do need to position the crosscut fence / outrigger appropriately.

I don’t understand why you would need to spin it? Pull it straight out from the wall to align the planer/thicknesser and saw table with the doors, then when dimensioning (including ripping) is complete push the machine back to use the panel saw function.