Thread: Laguna Platinum Dovetail Vs SawStop Professional Cabinet

So Dazm, are you saying that when you go to 45 degrees the cut goes out of square as you are 'looking down' on the piece from above? (you mention 2mm) That used to happen to me when i was using a mitre fence, so i changed to a dedicated sled with the 45 slot cut in it. I even glue sandpaper down on the base of the sled.

What i assume was happening, and sensed too, was that the force of the blade cutting was pushing/pulling the work piece on the smooth steel surface of the table. Remember, the force of the blade at 45 degrees is partially downward and partially sideways. There simply was not enough of a way to grip the piece of timber in place and resist that sideways force. (Note, sharpness of blade is a huge factor here too)

The sled solved all that (I have the basic Carbatec 10" Cabinet job, only complaint is no dado, and lousy rip fence) as I am pressing the piece down against another timber surface.

I also use scraps and masonite/thin ply to keep making new zero clearance back and base for the sled as needed, tho they last a long time. The advantage of that is you can use the old '5 cuts around a square' to check for squareness of the sled and dial in a really accurate setup (just by jamming slivers of paper between the fixed fence and the backer I stick on it for zero clearance.

As for getting the mitre itself to the exact 45 degrees, my saw doesn't go past 45. I want that fraction more, so the sled allows me to just glue a really thin strip along the underside/waste side. that raises up the sled and gives me that extra fraction of a degree. I find that if the mitre joint is just barely touching more on the outer point than the inner, glue up and band clamps pull it tight and true. Mind you it is really scant, you can only just see it. Try this too much and it would be hard to glue up square.

Yes, it's actually my blade that goes out of square at 45

Dazm
leaving aside your desire to purchase a new table saw that is an upgrade and therefore "better" than your current Carbatech contractor's saw, the reviews I'm reading here say that the latest jobsite saws from DeWalt (Model DW745) and Bosch (GS1031), which retail here for about $450 CAD, can be adjusted to cut accurate 45 degree mitres.
When used with an appropriate cross cut sled and other jigs, the table on a job-site saw will be plenty big enough for box making.

I see that the green shed has a variant of the DeWalt 745 for $849 -- talk about the Australia Tax.
Leaving aside what the Bunnings' price says about the Australia Tax, the comparison tells me, that either your existing saw is a "piece of junk" because it can't be adjusted, or it just needs the investment in time to make it work properly.

Now I appreciate that you are sick and tired of your existing saw's shortcomings, but for the use to which you intend to use the new saw, I firmly believe you really must rule out the lower price (contractor) SawStops on the basis of build quality and adjustability, and not just because the model is labeled "contractor". As I observed above, locally once you get above $2000 all you see is SawStop -- which tells me that a SawStop contractor saw is as good as a similarly priced cabinet saw. It's not till you get to the SawStop Industrial price point (around $6,000 CAD), that you start to see saws from other makers.

As to DomAU's comment that he would only buy the Industrial model -- these are targeted at commercial shops which run their saws 10 hours per day, 6 days per week for 20+ years. Which is equivalent to around 300 years of use by your typical weekend / part-time woodworker.

If your major criteria is maximizing the budget available to purchase a jointer, don't get sucked into the mantra that a cabinet saw is always better than a contractor saw.

Hey Ian,

I appreciate your input however I'm hoping that this saw will last me a good 20 plus years and a cabinet saw is something that I really do want in my workshop, main main point re money was that I don;t want to pay $3500 when I can get the same saw with a different name for $2000. Of course I also don't want to pay $2000 for something that "looks' the same but is nowhere near the quality of the $3500 saw.

Originally Posted by Dazm

Of course I also don't want to pay $2000 for something that "looks' the same but is nowhere near the quality of the $3500 saw.

This was the point I was trying to make.
and I'm sorry that I can't provide more than just observations from my local table saw market.

Just comparing the images / specs they look almost identical. Something is different about the laguna though. And that is it has a 5/8" arbor compared to the 30mm arbor in the harvey version. Hard to tell if they both use the same tilting mechanism. I'd guess they don't as if they did use the same one the arbor should be the same. The fence on harvey looks slightly different too. I'd suggest trying to see them in person as the only way to determine the difference. They weigh the same though.

For Gregmach / laguna to say their dovetail table saw is more accurate than the standard platinum is like saying that the standard platinum is not accurate. You're either accurate or your not. So advertising the dovetail system as more accurate means the standard system is not accurate. I don't think this is actually the case. If a $3000 table saw isn't accurate then someone is seriously wrong. I'd say the dovetail system would be smoother to operate and over its lifetime would probably be more robust and harder wearing.

I'd say when comparing sawstop to laguna, it'll mostly come down to if you think the sawstop feature is worth the extra dough. I'd rather have it and not ever need/use it than not have it and wish I did at some point in time. I don't hear much negative about the sawstop though so they must be well built.

I'd REALLY try building a basic sled then. Start off with maybe a one foot by two foot bit of ply scrap (1/2 inch) a scrap of hardwood for a runner and something beefier for a fence. After screwing it together and getting it square, do the '5 cut' check on something light like a 1/8 inch ply to make sure the rear fence is dead square to the blade, then take it up to real timber and see if it is coming out square then. I can pretty much guarantee that will solve the problem.

Originally Posted by Bendigo Bob

I'd REALLY try building a basic sled then. Start off with maybe a one foot by two foot bit of ply scrap (1/2 inch) a scrap of hardwood for a runner and something beefier for a fence. After screwing it together and getting it square, do the '5 cut' check on something light like a 1/8 inch ply to make sure the rear fence is dead square to the blade, then take it up to real timber and see if it is coming out square then. I can pretty much guarantee that will solve the problem.

Bob, a sled is not going to overcome the fact that the saw blade does not run 90deg to the mitre slots when at 45.

Originally Posted by Dazm

Bob, a sled is not going to overcome the fact that the saw blade does not run 90deg to the mitre slots when at 45.

I can't help but think you are maybe over-complicating it Dazm. Two things can happen if the blade is out of square to the mitre slot.

1. if the trailing edge of the blade is closer to the mitre slot than the leading edge you would notice that there is added cutting/burning happening there, because the first cut is further away from the slot than the rear/rising part of the blade - that is dangerous too, it would be imparting a lifting force against the work piece as well - no way I would use that saw to do the job under any circumstance.

2. if the leading edge of the blade is closer to the mitre slot then the cut (against all instinct yes but trust me here) would STILL be at parallel to the slot, even though the blade isn't. That's because the cutting point is that bit at the front, The travel, and therefore the cut, is parallel to the slot, and the only thing that then matters is that the 'mitre fence' itself is at right angles to the slot AND the work piece is not moving relative to the mitre fence. Nothing else really matters in this respect. That's the geometry of the issue.

The only change to the geometry of the work piece in this instance (leading edge closer to the mitre slot) is that there would be an indiscernible concavity to the face of the mitre cut. (just imagine the blade cutting in at an ever increasingly exaggerated angle and the curve of the blade beginning to translate into the profile of the cut). (This is my situation with my Carbatec, leading edge closer to slot)

I had the same trouble with only using a sliding mitre fence doing 45 degree cuts. The problem was solved completely with the sled because the piece simply cannot drift sideways any more. You simply have to deal with those sideways forces that the blade generates, whether it is pushing the piece sideways, or pulling the piece into itself.

Sorry for the lengthy geometry ramble, the maths geek coming out in me

I'd love to check these out in person, unfortunately there are no dealers in Perth that stock the Laguna or the Harvey

Originally Posted by Dazm

I'd love to check these out in person, unfortunately there are no dealers in Perth that stock the Laguna or the Harvey

Perth's selection for table saws really does suck. Beyond Tools is actually a Laguna distributor but pretty sure they only have the bandsaws on the floor.

Yes they're supposed to have the 6" Jointer as well but they don't.

A question about the fence-to-blade distance, if this is not going off the current focus: the distance advertised here is 30". What do most find useful?

I find this difficult to determine as I do not work with sheet goods, only hardwood. My reasoning is that 30" should be sufficient. My current tablesaw, a much modified 20-year old Carbatec with a Biesemeyer clone, which I plan to upgrade one day, with one of these saws in mind, is 42". That is made up of an extra panel for a router table. If I removed the cast iron wing on that side, it comes down to 32", and this seems small (compact tho'). Of course, I am used to the larger extension, so anything shorter will seem smaller. Do I need the extra width?

The other feature that separates the two tablesaws is the slider. Having used one (on my current tablesaw) for all these years, I would not want to be without it. It really is fantastic for crosscutting. In fact, I consider that the choice between tablesaws must include which slider is better.

To my eye, the SS slider looks a better made and more precise affair. Your thoughts?

Regards from Perth

Derek

A thesis on the problem, well not a thesis but post 16 explains the why's and wherefores of it, its a bummer that the photos are missing but it seems straight forward enough....

table saw blade alignment - close enough? - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum

I used this search to get that link and it may have more references in it worth reading

https://www.google.com.au/search?cli...UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

I knew I had read about this years ago, it is all in the trunnion mounting to the table.