Thread: Laguna Platinum v SawStop Contractor: a question of quality as well as safety

For those prices I would go the Laguna. 3HP vs 1.75HP. You are paying way too much for the Sawstop "safety' feature IMO.
If you really want the Sawstop gizmo, save up and get the full cabinet saw. They are, by all accounts, an excellent saw.

Originally Posted by zoovegroover

.... what really tempts me is how good this saw is supposed to be...fit and finish, customer service

But don't you have to buy it from Carbatec?

I agree with NCA - the smaller SawStops are underpowered for more dough. Comparing the De Walt site saw to the SS: nearly double the dough for just over half the power. ($1999 and 1½hp or 1125 watts verses $1049 and 2000w). When I pointed this out to the guy doing a demo of the SS at the show he said I should move up to the contractor saw with a whopping 1.75hp (and another $4-500).

Wow, a whole 175 watts of extra power.

You'd have to think that the under power will be the biggest hold up in selling the smaller SS saws.

To help you complete the evaluation of these table saw offerings, I suggest that you closely examine the list of all of the specifications for the SawStop machine of your choice, along with the price. I suggest placing the actual "SawStop" emergency blade stop / blade retraction features in a separate part of the table, as the only other table saw offering in the World that has similar emergency stop functionality is the Bosch Reaxx Job Site Saw, and I don't believe that the Bosch Reaxx machine is available on the market as Australia yet.

Then look at the alternative table saw products on the market, and start comparing those table saws based on the specifications etc that they offer. What you'll be able to see at the end of the process, is the actual dollar value of the emergency blade stop & blade retraction features that are incorporated in the SawStop machines.

Remember that what you are looking to buy is a Table Saw that has all the features, functionality, build quality, and accuracy that you require, at a price you can afford. If the emergency blade stop / blade retraction features are something that you believe that you can do without when you buy your new table saw, then I believe that you'll be able to get a much better equipped table saw at a price that is less than or equal to the SawStop.

Based on my personal observations, I believe that some (definitely not all ! ) owners/users of the SawStop machines, have changed their previously safe work practices to less safe practices, because they believe that the SawStop's in-built safety features will keep them safe.

As an example - In late 2015, I bought off GumTree, a trailer load of Qld Maple from a person on the Gold Coast. When I visited this bloke to pick-up the timber, he very proudly wanted to demonstrate this new SawStop machine to me. He runs a small one-man shop fitting cabinet building business. Before his demonstration, his main boast was that the SawStop has increased his productivity, and increased his profits. He was in the middle of making some sort of display cabinet, and had a bundle of 4mm thick 50mm wide draw dividers to rip from large stock. I was horrified when I watched him cutting these small thin parts without using a push stick or other safety aids. His fingers were getting as close as 5mm from the blade. When I mentioned this to him, his response was; "I don't need to use a Push Stick for that cut, because the SawStop machine has all the safety features that I need". He went on to say that "Using the SawStop without push sticks etc, allowed him to work much faster, increasing his productivity and therefore increasing his profit margins".

As far as I'm concerned, the moral of the above story is; "The SawStop machines are simply table saws that have some additional safety measures built into them. You still have to use all the normal safety procedures that are required on any other table saw (e.g. Operator Vigilance, Push Sticks, Feather Boards, etc, etc). The SawStop machine simply adds in one extra safety feature. The SawStop's in-built safety feature is not meant to replace normal table saw operator safety practices."

I could mention another SawStop case that I observed, but the person concerned is a member of this Forum, and may want to tell his story himself....

I hope that information helps you in your decision making.

Regards,

RoyG

Something else to consider - although it's unlikely. I questioned the demonstrator about cutting wet or even damp timber - given that the SS is triggered by a current flow of 3 volts out of the blade. You have to set the saw to non-safe mode in a case like this.

Two things come out of that - you may forget to set it back to safe, and what if there is moisture in the timber that you don't know about? Blade and device catastrophically wrecked for no good reason. Like I say, the latter is pretty unlikely but if the timber has been in the rain, surface is dry (thinking ready to cut) and there is a little borer hole with water still in it.....

Those are two very interesting posts...one on the power, and one on the safety (Roy, that is a scary story, man...). And tbh, I have wondered that myself. Would having a SawStop make me "lazy" when it comes to safety? After all, a table saw is just one place in the shop where accidents can happen. The jointer, the router table...all of these require respect as well. Interesting point also around the power of the SS cabinet saws...I'm in a bit of a tough spot because I rent and I can't really afford to be wiring up 15A outlets so I need to go with Phase 1 machinery. I hear a lot of good things about the Laguna Platinum, so perhaps that's the way to go and just ensure I continue to work safely...3HP sounds like it would handle my needs. Thanks for these thoughts, guys...really helpful to hear from people with more experience than me.

I'm in the exact same boat, but I want to purchase by COB 30/06/2016, so not much time.

In Adelaide though I don't know what my other options for purchasing Tables Saws are other than Leda and Carbartec.
Can someone suggest somewhere else?
I'm leaning towards the SawStop Contractor Saw, but open to ideas. I've got my eye on Carbatec's current special for $200 plus an extra brake.

I'd love 3HP, but I not sure I really need it. I've see many people on youtube doing similar projects to what I want to do with similar powered saws or the same Contractor SS. Mostly pine and plywood. For hardwood I figured I'd just take multiple shallow cuts.

I was offered a Carbatec 3HP 12inch saw with sliding table for $2100, but for that much I figured i'd stretch for a new SS.
The safety is a big issue for me as I've never really used a table saw.

Originally Posted by john1986

I'd love 3HP, but I not sure I really need it. I've see many people on youtube doing similar projects to what I want to do with similar powered saws or the same Contractor SS. Mostly pine and plywood. For hardwood I figured I'd just take multiple shallow cuts.

Here is something to think about

Overall risk = risk of a specific activity x exposure.

Taking multiple shallow cuts kinda defeats the purpose of getting the SS.

Around 50% of TS injuries are not caused by cuts from the blade but from kickback etc.

If you double the number of cuts your exposure doubles so the risk of injury on a SS = the same as any other TS.

BTW 1.5HP is going to struggle ripping even in 75 mm pine.

Originally Posted by RoyG

As far as I'm concerned, [the] SawStop machines are simply table saws that have some additional safety measures built into them. You still have to use all the normal safety procedures that are required on any other table saw (e.g. Operator Vigilance, Push Sticks, Feather Boards, etc, etc). The SawStop machine simply adds in one extra safety feature. The SawStop's in-built safety feature is not meant to replace normal table saw operator safety practices.

Well said

"Around 50% of TS injuries are not caused by cuts from the blade but from kickback etc." - This, too...In my limited experience as a wood worker (year and a half) the most dangerous situations I've encountered have been where I did something stupid and caused a kickback. It's easier to remember to keep your hands 6 inches away from the blade at all times given that it's loud and scary, it's not always so easy to realise you're feeding wood into the blade incorrectly.

SawStop is basically interfering with natural selection processes (a la Darwin Award).....

(sits back and awaits pelting with rotten fruit and vegies...)

To be honest, the single feature I'd be looking for on any new saw would be a proper "sharks fin" riving knife which rises and falls with the blade, and doesn't need to be removed for trenching cuts as the top sits just below the top of the blade. Infinitely preferable to the typical "fixed full height splitter with huge anti-kickback pawls and a sodding great plastic box on top" fitted to the majority of hobbyist saws these days. Ironically, I believe the SS machines are some of the few to have a proper riving knife.....

The only time a proper riving knife needs to be changed or adjusted is if you switch out the blade to something with a different kerf. The riving knife is there all the time, working for you to prevent timber closing up on the back of the blade and catching. Adjust the rip fence properly so that it runs out from the blade ever so slightly front to back (only a few thou required), and you have a pretty safe setup provided you keep hands away from the blade, use push sticks, and stop to think before doing anything really stupid.

I have a real problem with the SS trashing the blade every time the cartridge fires, and wait with interest to see whether the superior (IMHO) Bosch technology will become more widely available in the market (perhaps under licence?).

"Infinitely preferable to the typical "fixed full height splitter with huge anti-kickback pawls and a sodding great plastic box on top" fitted to the majority of hobbyist saws these days." - Hahaaaaa...I had all that rubbish off my DeWalt within a few days. The splitter stays on because it's very good and moves with the blade, but the rest is just too difficult to work with.

Ditto my JET saw....the whole horrible contraption is sitting in a drawer somewhere, rusting. I made up two zero clearance inserts of my own, one with a homemade stub splitter (timber) about 40mm high, the other with no splitter to be used for trenching cuts. The original metal insert (with big gaps up the sides of the blade) serves as a template for making more inserts, and is also used when the blade is tilted over. Of course, with a proper riving knife as I described above, the knife stays with the blade even when it is tilted over.....

As far as I can see, the Laguna Platinum doesn't have the type of "sharks fin" riving knife I am referring to??? Perhaps owners can confirm?

Originally Posted by Mr Brush

As far as I can see, the Laguna Platinum doesn't have the type of "sharks fin" riving knife I am referring to??? Perhaps owners can confirm?

From the specs on Greg Mach page

• Quick release riving knife with access through throat plate