Thread: Still learning - are these cuts safe?

From one newbie to table saws to another, yes I would do those cuts, might have my hands further from the blade and I may stand out of the way more of the cuts than him but essentially yes,
cheers��

Looks a bit dangerous to me . I have done such things and had kick backs so I gave up trying that sort of thing many years ago. The table and fence have to be clean and waxed or any thing that holds up the timber sliding cleanly will put it out of alignment and jam it causing a kickback . Its risky.
Id never let any of the guys who worked for me do it . No way. If it had to be done it would have had to be me doing it and I would have come up with another way.
A sled.
Or a sliding protractor in the slot with a long fence on it would be two safer ways.



Rob

Yeah… nah. I almost never cut any board where it is wider than it is long unless it is on a sliding carriage; running it along a fence the way he does runs the risk of the cut edge being damaged if the far end catches or drags on anything as the panel will try and rotate. His way can work but to me it is sub-optimal. And as he’s another ****witt who doesn’t use the saw guard on his Youtube videos I automatically switch off anyway.

I use a circ saw along a batten or a tracksaw leaving it a smidge oversize and shoot to a marked line for wood or trim with a router for the melamine stuff. I have a set of trestles with joining beams big enough to break down 8 x 4 sheets safely and dimension the cut pieces accurately.

I've made plenty of cuts like that in the past.

I do make these cuts with feather boards on the fence as well as on the off cut side to minimise the likelihood of kickback.

With cuts like this you really do need to apply alot of pressure towards the fence and being very vigilant about the direction of forces being applied both from you and the the saw pushing back, as others have said, depending on the dimensions od the board, it can rotate away from the fence leading to kickback.

Originally Posted by auscab

Looks a bit dangerous to me . I have done such things and had kick backs so I gave up trying that sort of thing many years ago. The table and fence have to be clean and waxed or any thing that holds up the timber sliding cleanly will put it out of alignment and jam it causing a kickback . Its risky.
Id never let any of the guys who worked for me do it . No way. If it had to be done it would have had to be me doing it and I would have come up with another way.
A sled.
Or a sliding protractor in the slot with a long fence on it would be two safer ways.



Rob

+1 here!

Yes, it can be done, but should we do it? The risks of kick back are too high to be acceptable imho! I agree 110% with auscab, it doesn't take much at all to create a kickback, a slight misalignment then BAM! Wide boards run thru on a short edge make it far riskier!

Far better too use the tracksaw to break down the board into more manageable boards. Allow a little trim excess then run the board thru the table saw to final dimensions. Seems like more work, but safer, and far less likely to destroy stock and humans.

Guard? Of course not, it's BoobTube.

Thanks for the answers so far. What is everyone using as a rule of thumb for when it's not safe. Is it as simple as if the width of the board is greater than the length (ie the side riding along the fence) then it's a no go? Or is there something more like a ratio? Or is it just whether it feels right or not?

Either way for my cuts I think I'll stick to the straight edge and circular saw

You could just rough cut your piece 10 mm to big with something else like a jigsaw then pass it through the table saw. It’s still going to be wider than it is longer but a fair bit less likely to go wrong . If it’s a cabinet side then it’s roughly going to be 800 high and 600 deep I suppose .
I use a radial arm saw for cutting things to length fine or rough cut . And I have a sliding table saw. Which does the job perfectly which has a rolling table and long fence out to the left . I used to rough cut and buzz the edge sometimes . The greater issue after safety was getting a clean cut with no chip outs on that melamine stuff . I’m usually cutting solid wood and much prefer that .

I'm sure there is a rule as a guide to go by, but what i normally do is lower the blade below the table. and push the board through. If i can do it without any rotation of the board then i'm comfortable completing the cut. You'll quickly get a feel of how the board will behave with this quick test. If it does rotate/ move away from the fence (and you really must complete the cut) review your technique are you pushing on the fence side and only gliding on the offcut side?

Each to their own at the end of the day, as always if you don't feel safe doing it don't. Its not worth losing a limb or having a board go flying across the room.

Originally Posted by lemerv

Thanks for the answers so far. What is everyone using as a rule of thumb for when it's not safe. Is it as simple as if the width of the board is greater than the length (ie the side riding along the fence) then it's a no go? Or is there something more like a ratio? Or is it just whether it feels right or not?

Either way for my cuts I think I'll stick to the straight edge and circular saw

No hard and fast rules as a lot depends upon each situation. Things like the surface finish of the board, i.e. melamine will slide easier than a hardboard, which will be easier than a feature grade ply sheet etc. You may do it easily with say melamine face board but face heaps of issues with the ply. A neat edge along the fence vs a rough edge; crap on the table surface etc.

I learned the basics working on job sites and in workshops with my father (carpenter / joiner / builder) and his friends (cabinet makers etc). I got to use a range of saws from circular, radial, table, sliding panel saws. Each has their own 'safety' rules. Back in those days a clip over the ear made you remember not to do some things.

My first safety rule is "Don't do it if you don't feel comfortable."

Admittedly, there have been methods I felt quite comfortable with until I was rudely disabused. But I never felt quite as comfortable doing that again, so the 1st rule still holds, yeah?


In the example shown in the video, that's rapidly approaching a "two-man job." Which is something I've never been particularly enthused about and would always prefer to find an alternative.

At the very least I'd use a sacrificial 'push fence' that reached past the cut while still maintaining good registration with the TS fence. Sorta like an over-sized T-square that you don't mind cutting chunks out of.

His hand placement is key to success. It looks like he is being a wimp being so far away from the blade. If he moves his hands closer to the blade, he is likely to torque the boards trailing corner off the fence. If he moves his hands further from the blade, the blade itself is likely to torque the leading corner off the fence. When you start torquing boards mid-cut, you create binding and burning. Torque it too far, and the riving knife won't be enough to stop the kick back that is about to occur. If you didn't have a riving knife installed, it'll just kick back without the binding/burning warning.

Given that hand placement will determine success or serious injury type failure, it's clearly a dodgy move. I still do it, but I'm pretty 'creative' with my use of machinery that can maim.

I'd have no concern making that cut on my saw (which has a riving knife). I'd have to remove the guard too, which requires extra vigilance. I agree with Kuffy about the importance of hand placement. I'd be placing my hands exactly where he does in the video.

Originally Posted by lemerv

I had decided that it would have to be done using a straight edge and circular saw.

That's a lot better than the video process for safety. And accuracy if it's done correctly. Make sure both sides of cut are supported so your saw blade doesn't bind in kerf, especially towards end of cut.