Thread: New Table saw.

Hi Bob,

The saw brakes work well, it's just that the inertia of the dado head continues when the shaft stops, and has a propensity to undo the saw nut under braking, turning a stacked dado head into a stack of frisbees.


Sheddie/Harry,

Just to look at the safety thing a little bit closer:

Looking at the safety side of a stacked dado head on a saw, you're cutting a half inch to three-quarter wide trench in a board that's about 10mm deep or so in a single pass, with the power of the saw pushing the board back at you. As well, you can't fit a riving knife so if you're cutting solid timber, there's the chance of the board moving as the stresses in the upper and lower surface of the board relieve themselves.

[edit: and the blade is unguarded unless you've got an overhead guard]


I've used dado heads on a RAS, which was a bit easier as you only have to control the saw head, not to move the board across the head.

[edit: and the blade is guarded properly.]

I'd recommend another solution as I said before, especially as you have to hold the board hard against the fence as you push the board into the blade. I use a router to cut trenches - either guided off a fence or off a cleat clamped to the board. To get the size accurate, I have a selection of bits by the mm and cut barefaced tongue and grooves.


However, feel free to use whatever tooling you want, however you want.


For a bit more detail, here's some english language explanations from the UK version of WorkCover:

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/wis37.pdf
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/wis38.pdf

Cheers,

eddie

Originally Posted by Gumby

That's not a hijack. It's actually quite relevant to the original topic.

OK Gumby. Point taken.
Cheers

Thanks for the info Edd, going by those publications it is only the braking. 10 seconds max is the limit, my saw takes less than 5 to stop with the dado set fitted and theres no brake fitted?
Also if the dado is fitted with "pins" its legal, this stops the blades from spinning freely and chippers being used individually.
So dado's are not illegal in Europe...

Originally Posted by Honorary Bloke

Sheddie, I think you've been reading up and are trying to mod your own thread.

HB, i think Sheddie as a mod on another woodie forum temporarily forgot where he was

Originally Posted by Lignum

HB, i think Sheddie as a mod on another woodie forum temporarily forgot where he was

Tis OK Lig. I'm watching the bugger. He will feel my power shortly...
I talked to a bloke today who has a Radial Arm Saw fitted with 4 blades as a Dado blade. Works beautifully he says and is much safer than doing it on a table saw.

Originally Posted by Shedhand

PS: should see my first resharpened Berg chisels. WOW. I just love that Tormek 2006 I bought at the show on Friday. Up until 1.00AM this morning sharpening....
Cheers

Hi Shedhand, If it is not a rude question, and feel free to say it is, what did you pay for the Tormek 2006.

It is the only item in the carbatec catalogue that has a POA and not a price listed.

I am trying to decide what type of sharpening system I go for, and this one looks and sounds like a goodun.

What jigs did you get for it?

Originally Posted by TassieKiwi

Hey sheddie - who are you dealing with - Machinery international?

Q - does it have a moving or static riving knife?

Hi TassieKiwi,

It is Machinery international who are located at Kingsmeadows, last time I was home I called in for a look around - it's a big old tin shed with LOTS of toys. They also have carbatec and H&F machinery and they stock the carbitool handsaws

Quickest way to get to them is to get on the Midlands highway out of L'ton and turn off onto the Kingsmeadow connector road "to go to Bunnings" on the left. Don't go to Bunnings but keep going down
the road until you get to the Hobart road intersection and you will see the tin shed on the right.

Have fun

Originally Posted by Geoff Dean

Hi Shedhand, If it is not a rude question, and feel free to say it is, what did you pay for the Tormek 2006.

It is the only item in the carbatec catalogue that has a POA and not a price listed.

I am trying to decide what type of sharpening system I go for, and this one looks and sounds like a goodun.

What jigs did you get for it?

G'day Geoff. I paid 845 for it and got the standard blade sharpening jig (planes, chisels and scrappers) and the turning tool template and honing paste. I bought an extra rest (to save swapping over all the time) and the wheel grading stone.
However, I went to Geelong on Thursday and was looking around one of the hardware suppliers there and they had them on special for 699 (100 off their normal price of 799) so I was a bit cheesed off to say the least. They also had the DW735 thicknesser (3 knoife model) for 1150 on special( I paid 1250 for mine in a deal when I bought a bandsaw as well.). The penalty we pay for living in Tasmania I guess.
Shop around mate and they ARE the ducks guts. Rated for continuous use which is great also.
Cheers

Originally Posted by Shedhand

G'day Geoff. I paid 845 for it and got the standard blade sharpening jig (planes, chisels and scrappers) and the turning tool template and honing paste. I bought an extra rest (to save swapping over all the time) and the wheel grading stone.
However, I went to Geelong on Thursday and was looking around one of the hardware suppliers there and they had them on special for 699 (100 off their normal price of 799) so I was a bit cheesed off to say the least. They also had the DW735 thicknesser (3 knoife model) for 1150 on special( I paid 1250 for mine in a deal when I bought a bandsaw as well.). The penalty we pay for living in Tasmania I guess.
Shop around mate and they ARE the ducks guts. Rated for continuous use which is great also.
Cheers

Thanks for that Shedhand, They sound great, but not sure I want to spend that much to sharpen a few chisels and kitchen knives.

At the moment using a Triton Orbital Sander on my 4 " angle grinder held upside down in a vice and with 600 grit paper.

Run the knife freehand across the disc (making sure that it is on the side that is spinning away from me) and hope to hold a steady angle.

Not the best, but it does work OK with a bit of practice, however my knives blades are disappearing a little faster than they should.

Works Ok for the chisels also, but must take care not to blue up the steel.

(Sorry for the thread hijack, I am also looking at Table saws at the moment and look forward to reading more about your new one.

Originally Posted by Bodgy

If thats the case, then I think I'll get one. Seems best value all round, even if you pay the extra for a good fence. Why wouldn't the retailer advertise the fact that its a 3 HP motor? 2HP would be the main negative when comparing with the other 3HP jobs.

Let us know whether the spindle is able to mount a dado.

Hope you catch a monster - no not the ex.

Hmm. I'm a bit confused! Went into my local specialst woodwork supply shop today and they had TS setup on display. Same model number as mine. The only difference was the colour of the base. Mine's blue it was greyish. The blurb said it had "a powerful" 2 hp motor. ?? Wonder why 2 machines, same model number have different motors. Did I get lucky I wonder? And the 2 hp machine was priced at $1450.00 Mine was 1250 with a free Freud 10" 80T blade.

Originally Posted by Shedhand

Hmm. I'm a bit confused! Went into my local specialst woodwork supply shop today and they had TS setup on display. Same model number as mine. The only difference was the colour of the base. Mine's blue it was greyish. The blurb said it had "a powerful" 2 hp motor. ?? Wonder why 2 machines, same model number have different motors. Did I get lucky I wonder? And the 2 hp machine was priced at $1450.00 Mine was 1250 with a free Freud 10" 80T blade.

I looked at buying a saw from Carbatec (MJ 2325B or similar) and read a review of it in the English Joinery/Cabinetmaking mag. I'm pretty sure it was rated at 2HP... but around 2200Watts which don't add. In the end I went for the big blue guy but that was largely because there were unresolved (still?) doubts about it taking a dado head. I think my drillpress has a 1/2 HP 750Watt motor - which also no add. Could be the guy who stamps the plates just puts whatever he thinks is about right for the day Watts - Volts - Amps - particles & waves - it's all Greek to me! Probably a marketing thing.

Originally Posted by MurrayD99

Could be the guy who stamps the plates just puts whatever he thinks is about right for the day Watts - Volts - Amps - particles & waves - it's all Greek to me! Probably a marketing thing.

This has been discussed several times before. In general the Wattage on the motor refers to the typical electrical power the motor draws under a decent load. The HP rating MAY be related to the electrical power drawn. If it's less than this, it may be the power the machine can deliver at the workface.

What is rarely understood is that electrical motors don't draw a constant current. For example my TS is rated at 3HP (2.25 kW), but draws anywhere from 4 A (~ 1kW) when free running to 17 A (4 kW) under a heavy load just before it stalls/slips. By gut instinct I would say the saw could run reasonably continuously at about 10 - 12A (or 2.4 kW which is consistent with the 3HP rating). The actual HP rating at the workface will depend on the losses due to friction in the belt and pulley systems being used.

In a more basic analysis, if it rips Aussie hardwood at a decent feed rate at or near full depth cut - who cares? The Jet supersaw does this (according to Wongo), but is rated at 1.5hp, something about the seppo's rating it at the blade or something.

Originally Posted by BobL

This has been discussed several times before. In general the Wattage on the motor refers to the typical electrical power the motor draws under a decent load. The HP rating MAY be related to the electrical power drawn. If it's less than this, it may be the power the machine can deliver at the workface.

What is rarely understood is that electrical motors don't draw a constant current. For example my TS is rated at 3HP (2.25 kW), but draws anywhere from 4 A (~ 1kW) when free running to 17 A (4 kW) under a heavy load just before it stalls/slips. By gut instinct I would say the saw could run reasonably continuously at about 10 - 12A (or 2.4 kW which is consistent with the 3HP rating). The actual HP rating at the workface will depend on the losses due to friction in the belt and pulley systems being used.

Yes, quite so. The general rule is simple enough - sort of static rating - 2200Watts = 3HP. Then they may get cute and quote power delivered, as you say - like rated HP and drawbar HP on a tractor not being the same. Or, in former times, English cars being rated at so many HP for tax purposes - which was a pure calculation I think.