Thread: Best table saw blades

I had my first opportunity to use the new K3 and the blade that was supplied. Unfortunately, only on 3/4" melamine-covered chipboard (building a router table extension for the saw). This was industrial quality chipboard I found at a salvage yard.

The supplied blade is a 12" 48-tooth combo ... 300x3.2 x 30PHO3 Z=48 by Stark (Italian manufacturer).

What do you know about this blade?

The first slice through the board was amazing. No other word to describe the experience. I did not even feel the board being cut! It went through like a hot knife through butter. And there was absolutely no chipping at the edges of the melamine, on either side. I've not had such a clean cut in the past even with a triple chip blade.

A good start.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek
Great to see you are using and enjoying your new K3.

It was interesting to hear that Felder supplied a Stark ( Italian) blade with the saw rather than their propriety Silent Power.

The cut quality you achieved on Melamine is not surprising given the quality of the saw ( minimal runout) and I suspect the blade is ATB grind. I looked at the Stark website but couldn't decide on which blade you have.

When it comes to cutting solid timber (and also composites) I don't think that a TCG is the best choice. I believe TCG was originally designed for cutting Non Ferrous Metals. While a positive hook TCG will work on a table saw its not ideal. For general purpose cutting a 10deg top bevel but if you want really chip free cutting without a scriber then 40Deg Hi ATB.

Let us know how your new saw/ blade performs on ripping and crosscutting solid timber
Cheers
Ron

PS Could you please measure the diameter of the centres of the brake pins on your K3 arbor.

Hi Ron

What is it about the information (either supplied by myself or the website) that suggests the blade is a "ATB grind" or "TCG"? I am aware that Stark make metal-cutting blades for Industrial use, but this is not a metal-cutting blade.

I do not know why I received this blade rather than one by Felder/Hammer - I assume that the agent was either trying to save money or a lesser cost (they stated it was worth $185) or offering an equal/better alternative. I don't know enough about these blades to decide which.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Hi Derek:

Out of curiosity, did you negotiate the blade when you bought the saw? Felder saws come standard with no blade, which is probably a bit of a shock to some considering that the saws are costly, so I'm surprised that you received any blade at all. When I bought my saw, I bought some blades, and they threw in a couple of blades as part of the negotiation, but it certainly didn't "come with one"!

Lucky

Hi Lucky

I asked (my local) Felder whether a blade came with the saw. I was told that they would supply one free. This was noted on the invoice (along with the price they would usually sell it for - $185). They also said that they do stock, or could get into stock, the Felder blades. I do not know the prices or equivalents of this blade.

I have been led to believe that Leitz manufacture (re-badge?) the Felder/Hammer blades. However the Leitz website is impossible to use. The Leuco website is easy, and for this reason I am leaning in that direction for a dedicated rip: Panel Saw Blade Leuco Australia

I have yet to try out the Stark on hard wood. Hopefully later today.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by LuckyDuck

Hi Derek:

Out of curiosity, did you negotiate the blade when you bought the saw? Felder saws come standard with no blade, which is probably a bit of a shock to some considering that the saws are costly, so I'm surprised that you received any blade at all. When I bought my saw, I bought some blades, and they threw in a couple of blades as part of the negotiation, but it certainly didn't "come with one"!

Lucky

Mine came with two blades, both ten inch without me requesting a blade. They were most probably relieved to see it go as it sat in their warehouse for nearly twelve months before I picked it up.

Originally Posted by derekcohen

The Leuco website is easy, and for this reason I am leaning in that direction for a dedicated rip: Panel Saw Blade Leuco Australia

Those rip blades are fantastic, we have the 400mm 32T.

If you have the option, drop the rpm of your saw when using it for deep ripping as it reduces noise and burning and gives you a significant torque advantage

I was interested to note that the larger blades are more noisy. Am I right in assuming this is because they are travelling faster? Without a VFD the speed will be governed by the motor and pulleys. Consequently the tip speed of different diameter blades will vary accordingly. Is it windage that creates the noise?

However, the next thing that seems surprising is that if a saw is designed for a certain diameter blade, a smaller blade will run at a lot less than optimum speed. I am surprised that smaller than design blades perform well.

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

I was interested to note that the larger blades are more noisy. Am I right in assuming this is because they are travelling faster? Without a VFD the speed will be governed by the motor and pulleys. Consequently the tip speed of different diameter blades will vary accordingly. Is it windage that creates the noise?

I'm pretty sure it's mainly from the gullets causing turbulence, Leuco (and probably others as well) make some ultra-low-noise blades that have tiny gullets and very little tooth projection past the saw body so that it's as close to a solid disc as possible.

I'm guessing that blade manufacturers design around a few thousand rpm range, rather than optimising for one speed. Timber is also much more forgiving to running outside of the best feed/speed parameters than metal is; the worst you're likely to do is get burn marks or stall the motor.

In reply, I take your point about different RPMs. That's why some saws have different speeds. But man, a VFD would be the bees knees!

Leuco do make a "low noise" blade. I had the rep bring one to my shop and he allowed me to mount it in my saw and turn it on. It is SO QUIET! The difference was quite staggering to me. But the price was a deal breaker. These "quiet saw blades" are diamond encrusted and last a very long time. But even on a special introductory sale, it still cost over $1k. That's not a typo. Over $1000AUD. Now that slightly exceeds the OP's blade budget! 😝

Originally Posted by elanjacobs

I'm pretty sure it's mainly from the gullets causing turbulence, Leuco (and probably others as well) make some ultra-low-noise blades that have tiny gullets and very little tooth projection past the saw body so that it's as close to a solid disc as possible.

I'm guessing that blade manufacturers design around a few thousand rpm range, rather than optimising for one speed. Timber is also much more forgiving to running outside of the best feed/speed parameters than metal is; the worst you're likely to do is get burn marks or stall the motor.

EJ

It is my take that it is indeed the gullets that create the noise. A smaller gullet, while being quieter, would not be so efficient in removing sawdust. The range of speeds that are acceptable is more difficult to assess. If you take hand held circular saws ( and I know we are not talking hand held here) the smaller diameter saws run faster because it is the tip speed that is important. When I have been reading literature from the old sawmakers they had recommended speeds according to th diameter of the blade. I can't imagine that the principle would be very different today.

Lucky

I expect the quietness is due to a reduction or elimination of gullets on the diamond encrusted blade.

Just to return to Derek's original question after my attempts in vain to highjack the thread, where are you up to with a replacement blade? I was questioning why you would bother with a combination blade. Rip blades rip. Crosscut blades, well, crosscut. A combination blade surely is if you only have a single blade.

Regards
Paul

Yeah I definitely wasn't suggesting getting one, just as an example. I'd love to get some of their p-system tools but they start at about $3k for a router bit...

I'm sure you could have a VFD fitted for a few hundred dollars if you have a friendly sparky mate

What country are Leuco blades manufactured?