Thread: table saw cutting advice

Hi I am not an expert on table saws but appears to be a blade issue, is the riving knife giving correct clearance ?
A good tracksaw is better than a bad tablesaw.Maybe buying new blades is throwing good money after bad if the saw itself is poor.

I just use a basic compound mitre saw for narrow cross cuts and a festool plunge saw for longer cuts with home made track and it cuts every timber beautifully.

I think it must be a blade problem too. I have made a table saw by mounting a circular saw on a piece of wood and it has cut wood like that with no issue. Not wanting to state the obvious but is the blade actually mounted the right way around? Though it looks like it is in the picture. Just that it seems to have burnt its way from the very start of the cut! I have now "upgraded" to an Aldi table saw and dont get any burning with it either.

That is a terrible amount of burning. Since the burning is on both sides of the cut, it seems like the blade kerf is less than the blade stock thickness. Or the blade tips have hit a few too many nails.

Do you find it takes a lot of effort to push the timber through? Does it tend to kick the timber back at you?

Thanks for the suggestions guys and code4pay yep its in the right way , riving knife is giving clearance so all good there. blade has always cut like this so that's why I was thinking getting a new blade might be the go. I'm currently saving for a 10" new cabinet saw (about half way there 1k to go) so if I get a new blade and it doesn't help I would keep it for the new saw so no wasted money there.

The thing Im not to sure about is what type of blade to go for, how many teeth thin or wider kerf and the likes. any ideas? brand and model would be great.

thanks

Kuffy,

Nope no nails as its always been fresh timber, tho it can at times take a little to get the blade into the timber so there is defiantly some resistance going on. Never had it lift or kick back thank god, not looking forward to the first time that happens, hope I never have to

It will be interesting to see what the actual issue ends up being, its an amazing amount of burning.

It must be the blade. Edges must have been burnt away. A thin kerf blade will help avoid burning, and allow your saw to punch above its weight class, but then your riving knife/splitter will be too fat.

40-48tooth 15degree hook alternate bevel (ATB) is a decent combo blade. it gives a decent finish crosscutting, and it can rip timbers but it takes a bit of effort.

60+ teeth are primarily used for crosscut, and often come with a negative hook angle which gives a really nice end grain finish.

Good ripping blades will have about 24teeth, knuckles and a high hook angle of 20degrees. Tears end grain apart, but rips along the grain very easily.

Freud, AKE, CMT blades are all pretty good.

ABSOLUTELY any blade has to better than the factory supplied one.

Freud Fusion are amazing blades.

My 2 cents (I use my TS for about 3 hours a day).

-- Check all and every alignment to ensure its straight, parallel and 90 degrees.
-- employ some form of dust collection
-- check the riving knife is not thicker than the blade
-- sharp sharp sharp
-- raise the blade until the gullets are only half way above the surface. The cuts will be cleanest.
-- Raising the blade much higher improves safety (as blade is directing force generally downwards, compared to the above scenario where its applying force towards-you-ish.)
-- Use a pushstock/stick or get a Grripper (these are awesome)

Again, check the alignments. Id wager this is your problem.

Hi Skara

I started off with a Ryobi tablesaw like yours. I used the factory supplied blade for a little while but soon found even the cheap Irwin blades from the big green shed produced much better results. I also found the factory fence had a slight concave section in the middle which sometimes caused some burning but I fixed that by screwing a piece of straight hardwood to the fence.

Does this burning happen when you are ripping timber while using the fence or is it only when you are crosscutting using a sled?

It looks like it might be an alignment issue in that the fence is not parallel to the blade or the direction of travel of the crosscutting sled is not parallel to the blade. This results in some side pressure being exerted to the blade causing the burning. I am speaking from personal experience with my Ryobi tablesaw although I did not experience burning to the extent you have.

If your blade is not parallel to the fence or the mitre gauge slot in the tabletop you maybe able to adjust the saw carriage mechanism under the table.

By all means try another blade because as others have already replied, the factory supplied one is pretty ordinary.

Hope this helps

Regards
Twosheds

P.S. I just re-read Evanism's post.... what he said. Its likely to be a alignment issue.

Originally Posted by Kuffy

I 60+ teeth are primarily used for crosscut, and often come with a negative hook angle which gives a really nice end grain finish. .

This is a quote from Woodweb.http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_bas..._Positive.html

From Professor Gene Wengert, Sawing and Drying Forum technical advisor:
Radial arm saws (or generally any saw where you move the saw blade into the wood) should always have 0 or slightly negative rake angles. However, a table saw (or generally any saw where the wood moves into the saw) with 0 or negative will likely kick the piece back at you... fast enough that you see it coming but too fast for you to get out of the way.
See more at: http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_bas....Cgpux8dC.dpuf

The problem becomes even greater with fewer teeth. I have a 96 tooth negative rake blade that I use for plastics and aluminium and occasionally it remains on the TS and one time I just needed a quick cut of a piece of pine and found it did indeed push the wood back against the feed so that I had to push much harder than usual, which itself is also a danger. It doesn't push back anywhere near as much on plastic or Al

These blades do produce a nice end grain finish but if you want this then there are plenty of fine tooth positive rake blades that do this. I have a triple chip 100 tooth blade that does and even better job than the negative rake blade.

Bob, thats interesting. Ive not noticed it kicking back, or the need for extra effort to cut. Im gonna try it out later on with the crosscut fence infront of the timber rather than behind, I bet your right. I do like the edge finish though, a bit of 240grit and its done.

So for skara, change the idea of a 60+tooth with negative hook to a 60+tooth and 10degree positive hook

Edit: Yep, I tested with the timber behind the fence, it didnt kick back, but there was alot more pressure on the timber when compared to my normal freud ATB 15degree positive hook. Such is life.

Looks like alignment issue to me also.I had a ryobi table saw and spent the time to set it up in line with the table slots. It is a bit of a fiddle to do but worth it. Google table saw setup. My ryobi had the saw bolted under the table top. Slacken bolts a bit and saw/motor assembly can be ever so slightly pivoted to line up with table slots. A case of move a bit measure move again ect until happy with result. After that is in line then line up the fence with the blade.
That blade looks like it would be ok to rip with so get a 60 tooth or higher blade for crosscutting and sheet goods. An Irwin or Makita blade will be fine as I dont see the need for a high end blade in that saw. No blade however expensive will be any good if it is out of line and a modest sharp blade will do a good enough job if things are aligned. It will be a good learning exercise getting this saw set up before you get the new one and have to set it up.
Regards
John

Thanks again guys all good info, burning occurs regardless of whether I'm using the fence or sled, I could understand the burning on a fence but not on the sled as that cuts at the angle of the setup, that pic was on the sled and the worst Ive seen, twosheds I also found that slight bend you are talking about and have fixed it by bolting a strip of 4x60mm aluminium 90deg to the face of the fence. I also checked the alignment the other day prior to posting and found using the same tooth on the blade I found the far end was ever so slightly closer (less then a mm) using an electronic calliper which has been fixed using a tiny spacer in the fence setup (thickness of two bits of paper)

being a cheap saw and direct drive the moment you flick it on it tends to find its new alignment which is hard to measure, I did the 5 cut test on the sled to align the mitre fence and found the error level to be minimal tho I am off to the big green shed in a second to buy a new blade (Freud if they have a decent one) and will do the 5 cut test again to check and post pics and findings. If the BGS doesnt have one ill go to Beginners and have a look at there Bosch range of blades

Will post a before and after pic once I make the cuts, hope it works as I've modded this POS saw a lot to

Cheers again guys

Like a hot knife through butter, well problem sorted, blade was the issue so thanks for all the great advice, I ended up getting two blades as the Freud 60 tooth didn't have the bloody busher to suit 30mm bore to a 16mm bore so I got the Bosch 40 tooth blade as well that included one but that is ok as I need to rip some decking pieces and dont want to use the new Freud one.

I have to say as well that it is sooooooo much quieter even spinning free with out cutting it is notably quieter.

Again thanks for all the help, I am now going to build a new sled (first one was for practice really) and I will post up some pics of the cabinet I made for it. Now that I have the saw working to a degree that it is usable I will be putting the money I had set aside for a new table saw into a jointer and a thicknesser so if anyone has one for sale or anyone know of anyone that has one let me know.

Thanks guys, much appreciation.

Damo