Thread: Table Saw for furniture & cabinet making

Originally Posted by Midnight Man

Hi folks, and thank you to anyone who can share some thoughts or first hand experience here!

I'm looking to make quite a bit of cabinetry over the coming year or two - kitchen fitout, laundry fitout, bookshelves for the lounge, storage for a craft room, and probably a couple of custom desks. As you can guess, we've very recently moved into a new place, and that means I now can fit out the workshop with some proper gear, and in most cases, I'm starting from scratch (that is, no existing gear). I have a 3 x 6m space, so I can't really fill it with a huge table saw, but I do want a good quality one for all the projects above (and all the other ones we haven't thought of yet).

I've done a fair bit of reading around here on the various table saws, and was first attracted to the Saw Stop contractor unit, mainly because it had the safety feature and wasn't "too much more expensive" than other cabinet saws I had seen. I will say my research then showed the difference between a contractor vs cabinet saw, and in particular the power difference between them.

Doing much further reading, I found the Laguna Platinum (https://www.gregmach.com/product/lag...m-10-tablesaw/) for $3150, and in reading, found it was equivalent to the Harvey (https://www.majorwoodworking.com.au/...-tablesaw-568/) at $2595.

I have read much about people saying the Taiwanese saws are better than Chinese, and I had also found the Hare & Forbes (W486 | ST-254 Table Saw | For Sale Sydney Brisbane Melbourne Perth | Buy Workshop Equipment & Machinery online at machineryhouse.com.au) for $1250.

I know that there has to be some difference between the Harvey/Laguna and the Hafco unit - it's half the price. But my question from those "in the know" is - what differences are there, and even more importantly, which of these three saws are most appropriate for the use I'm looking for? I don't intend to buy another table saw, this is one I'd like to purchase once and keep forever (I have read some argument of buying a cheap unit now and upgrading later, but to me that seems a waste of money).

I should add here that the eventual plan will be to add the Incra fence system (unless the table comes with something pretty incredible to begin with), and likely enough add an Incra router table (separate) for the routing work required for the cabinetry. Yes, this will total up to some decent coin, but I see it as a one-time investment.

With many thanks for thoughts, advice and input!

I am in the same boat as you.
Looking at saws from dewalt to harvey cabinet saw. Contractor saws are half the weight of cabinet, but contractors tend to have an external motor making them wider and beaware not all sellers make it clear. Often only giving the width of the base or table top. So if its on a mobile base and stored against a wall contractor saw will take more space up. The other factor that crosses my mind is dust extraction i believe a contractor will give off more dust and its still too heavy on small wheels to take outside of garage as there is a small lip and pebble concrete on the drive. So a dust extractor is a must for both. So a cabinet saw in my eyes is better apart from the fact a hafco contractor is $1500 cheaper than a harvey. The sawstop jobsite is a possibilty but st $2000 is it worth it?



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Originally Posted by Midnight Man

I'm looking to make quite a bit of cabinetry over the coming year or two - kitchen fitout, laundry fitout, bookshelves for the lounge, storage for a craft room, and probably a couple of custom desks. As you can guess, we've very recently moved into a new place, and that means I now can fit out the workshop with some proper gear, and in most cases, I'm starting from scratch (that is, no existing gear). I have a 3 x 6m space, so I can't really fill it with a huge table saw, but I do want a good quality one for all the projects above (and all the other ones we haven't thought of yet).

I've done a fair bit of reading around here on the various table saws, and was first attracted to the Saw Stop contractor unit, mainly because it had the safety feature and wasn't "too much more expensive" than other cabinet saws I had seen. I will say my research then showed the difference between a contractor vs cabinet saw, and in particular the power difference between them.

I should add here that the eventual plan will be to add the Incra fence system (unless the table comes with something pretty incredible to begin with), and likely enough add an Incra router table (separate) for the routing work required for the cabinetry. Yes, this will total up to some decent coin, but I see it as a one-time investment.

With many thanks for thoughts, advice and input!

some comments

is the primary reason for buying the table saw is to break down sheets of MDF / Melamine / particle board -- my advice would be buy something else.

typically, if you can accurately measure what you need, a kitchen maker can provide a "flat pack" cut, edged and drilled for less than you can buy the raw material from Bunnings or Mr Ply & Wood.


If your project planning suggests lots of odd sizes, and cutting on site over many weekends, then you will probably find a track saw system is more convenient and accurate than a table saw. Accurate cuts on a table saw requires around 2.5 m of lead-in and another 2.5 m of tail-out with accurately placed supports for the tail out. That's starting to look like all of your 6 x 3 m shed. On the other hand, a track saw can break down a sheet in not much more than the area of the sheet itself. Cost wise a Festool saw, guide rails and small router for the shelf drilling would set you back $2-1/2 to $3 Thousand. Add a shop vac and you will be almost completely dust free.
The table saw will require a 2 hp dust extractor and plumbing and an external enclosure and ...

If you are mostly cutting sheet material, the power difference between a contractor and "proper" table saw is irrelevant. It's only when you want to start cutting lots of stuff thicker than about 75 mm that the saw's maximum power comes into play. And a good, sharp thin kerf blade can make up for most of the power difference.

Apart from the safety feature, the other bonus with a saw stop contractor saw is its fence -- described elsewhere as "smoother than silky smooth".


the other thing is...
if you go down the route of using a track saw for your sheet cutting, you can do almost all your cross cutting using the track saw negating the need for a miter saw, or a cross cut sled for the table saw -- bringing the "required" table saw down to the size of a job-site saw.
note that I'm making a distinction between "required" and "desired"

Originally Posted by ian

If your project planning suggests lots of odd sizes, and cutting on site over many weekends, then you will probably find a track saw system is more convenient and accurate than a table saw.

Thank you for your valuable comments and insight! It's ironic in a way that you suggest a track saw, because I had originally started looking at using one of these, and for some reason was led into the belief/understanding (and probably incorrectly so) that a table saw would be easier and more accurate.

Also it's probably true to say that your final comment (required versus desired) probably got in the way a bit too!

I note you mention Festool as a suggested solution, and for sure, I do like what Festool has to offer - but my thinking was that it's probably one step beyond the level of kit needed for me to perform this work and have an enjoyable tool to use - instead of this unit, I had given consideration to https://sydneytools.com.au/bosch-gkt...saw-gkt-55-gce

In conjunction with this, I had planned to make a "table" consisting of some 70mm treated pine runners in much the same manner as shown in this video (time snapped showing the table): https://youtu.be/Bpra92hsOFY?t=171

Then, well, I potentially strayed, thinking a table saw would be the better option.

So - potentially - this now becomes a discussion of which track saw to buy... ?

I have a schepach track saw from hare and forbes and it works great, but for ripping down of narrow lengths a table saw fir me is the way to go. You can make any hand held circular saw into a track saw

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https://youtu.be/zbfDrv1pMOQ

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Hi MNM
It all depends .... track saws are fab for breaking down panels and finishing off table top ends where the guide is set true.

Making desks and furniture however, does require accurate joints (Mortise and Tenon, Bridal, Half laps, Mitres, Splines, etc.) , and for raised panels, dados, squaring edges after jointing, and doing absolutely repeatable cuts .... you may just find the track saw wanting.

I use a cheap track/plunge saw for breaking down panels (most times the timber yard will cut down on their vertical panel saws so what you take home can be easily handled).

Track saws are great, much more accurate than a circular saw (particularly when achieving square edge cuts), but they are limited to what they can do when sizing timber. I doubt that a track saw could rip a short, or long, 90mm plank into 40mm sticks with 0.1mm or less accuracy.

In most cases the edges of panels will be housed in dodos or rebates, and it is the frames that catch the eye, the joinery for such frames requires more accuracy than a track saw can give. Even with shelves, the edge band will generally be too narrow for a track saw to cut.

By all means get a track saw for cutting down panels .. (or go to a supplier who will cut down to manageable sizes)

Just on sizes of workshops, my workshop is 6.2M square. Half the width houses a veteran car which occassionallyt gets pushed out when I need more space.

My cabinet saw (Harvey) with outfeed table takes up about 1.5m wide and 2.5m long (including a wheeled 1.5M long outfeed table which doubles as my assembly table and tool cabinet). Remember that you can butt the table against the wall on the RHS, and with a mobile trolley use the RHS table extension for your router table.

Just my thoughts .. trying to be helpful

Regards

Rob

Originally Posted by blackjaffa

I have a schepach track saw from hare and forbes and it works great, but for ripping down of narrow lengths a table saw fir me is the way to go. You can make any hand held circular saw into a track saw

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Did you try the mods to improve the saw .. making it more stable on the guide, fixing the dust problem, and adjusting the spring rate

See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQcROnDi1HY

and its related videos.

I did these and the improvement was worth it ... particularly in removing the wobble on the track and the spring rate.

Regards

Rob

Originally Posted by Tahlee

Did you try the mods to improve the saw .. making it more stable on the guide, fixing the dust problem, and adjusting the spring rate

See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQcROnDi1HY

and its related videos.

I did these and the improvement was worth it ... particularly in removing the wobble on the track and the spring rate.

Regards

Rob

Haven't made any changes to mine i always take it outside and use it on a temporary bench.

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Originally Posted by Midnight Man

It's ironic in a way that you suggest a track saw, because I had originally started looking at using one of these, and for some reason was led into the belief/understanding (and probably incorrectly so) that a table saw would be easier and more accurate.

Also it's probably true to say that your final comment (required versus desired) probably got in the way a bit too!

I note you mention Festool as a suggested solution, and for sure, I do like what Festool has to offer - but my thinking was that it's probably one step beyond the level of kit needed for me to perform this work and have an enjoyable tool to use - instead of this unit, I had given consideration to https://sydneytools.com.au/bosch-gkt...saw-gkt-55-gce

In conjunction with this, I had planned to make a "table" consisting of some 70mm treated pine runners in much the same manner as shown in this video (time snapped showing the table): https://youtu.be/Bpra92hsOFY?t=171

Then, well, I potentially strayed, thinking a table saw would be the better option.

So - potentially - this now becomes a discussion of which track saw to buy... ?

I suggested Festool based on your desire to make kitchen / laundry / bathroom / storage cabinets from manufactured board. And also because the Festool OF 1010 Router can be teamed with a guide rail designed to be used as a template when drilling the holes required for the standard 32 mm system.
Because you are mostly cutting manufactured board, you may find that a cordless saw is more useful than a corded version.

Whichever saw you buy, keep in mind that accuracy and clean cuts really matter and your standard should be what will work best in your situation rather than an assumption that a particular tool or combination of tools "is beyond the level of kit required" for the task. Cleaning up and straightening cut edges gets very old very fast.



If cost and space were not a consideration, I'd recommend a European style sliding panel saw -- but cost and space are nearly always major considerations.



To place some additional ideas in your head. (and referencing Festool because it's easier to post a picture and/or link of a Festool set-up than to try and describe a shop made equivalent.)
If you team a track saw with the MFT style table you will have the equivalent of a mitre saw (for stock up to around 45 mm thick and 800 mm wide) and panel saw capable of accurately and repetitively squaring panels up to about 800 mm wide.

http://www.festool.com.au/epages/too...roducts/495315

this arrangement largely does away with most -- note I say most, not all -- of the cross-cutting tasks typically done with a table saw.


Then because with the above arrangement your table saw will be mostly used for ripping solid timber, in turn you can get away with using a smaller, less expensive table saw.

Back when I had both an MFT and a contractor style table saw, I did almost all of my cutting, apart from rip cuts, using the MFT and track saw.
Based on that experience, if I needed to drill lots of 32 mm system holes, I'd be using the MFT or similar for it's speed of setup.

Buy a cheap TS for tedious bits and a Festool saw and track for your kitchens/cupboards.

82733-why-not-both-meme-5LvD.jpg


edit: I might even argue a decent bandsaw and FT+track would be the best option. BS's are vastly underrated as essential tools.

I have a 12" sliding table panel saw with scribe and still break down my flats with a home made track saw...
BUT as a previous poster said it's cheaper, at least the eastern states, to have your melamine cut and flatpacked by a pro...

Here in the west I'm sure they work out the completed, finished, installed kitchen cost and then charge you half...

Well, with all the feedback and help here, I bit the bullet this afternoon and picked up the Festool bundle kit: https://sydneytools.com.au/festool-t...et-with-vacuum (it was a heck of a deal, and I figured with Festool, I wasn't going to have to replace it any time soon)

I see a couple of suggestions of adding a small table saw to this mix, but I was actually leaning toward a router table for jointing work.

I'm thinking of a stand alone router table (say INCRA Free Standing Router Table Tops with INCRA LS Positioner Super System - add a Balledonia router table lift here: https://www.timbecon.com.au/routing/...mounting-plate and then add a Triton TRA001). I had looked into this some time ago, and found that getting a 240V router to suit the Incra router lift over here was - well, in a nutshell, tricky.

I think the above system should allow the finishing work required on the panels on the various pieces I'll be working on? Or are there wiser choices here too?

Glad David mentioned the scribing blade because I would have thought a tablesaw with a separate scribing blade is a must for cutting melamine coated board. A regular tablesaw will chip the edges, even with a triple cut blade. I don't know about the Festo track but imagine it would too.

I have done a couple of kitchens, laundries etc in the manner the previous poster advised - getting all the board supplied and cut by a kitchen supplier. It was cheaper then I could have bought the raw material for, and amazingly quick and accurate on their altendorf.

I just took in cutting plans laid out on A4 paper and drove away with it all loaded up on the car. I just used my own tablesaw to cut a few pieces where I made an ocassional mistake or change of mind. Just where I needed the convenience.

The people I used were called Sam Issa Kitchens. I believe they are now called Trademaster or something similar (near Villawood Road). I don't know whether they are still such a good deal - but it was by far the best way to do it at the time.

--------------- edit ----------------
Sorry, your previous post wasn't there when I started typing this. I guess it's a bit irrelevant now you have made your purchase.

Originally Posted by Arron

Sorry, your previous post wasn't there when I started typing this. I guess it's a bit irrelevant now you have made your purchase.

All good, and still very relevant and good information Arron, thank you - these sorts of things are useful to keep in bookmarks (I did find the company thanks to your post) as there can easily be situations where their services come in very useful

For this project, I'm keen on doing it myself, I have a perceived "value" in the satisfaction of having it happen of my own creation.