Thread: What type of table saw?

Originally Posted by Midnight Man

Folks, I have a conundrum I am faced with, and I would appreciate thoughts and advice from those who might know answers (I don't - I'm pretty new to all this).

Having moved into a new place, we have some space for me to finally set up a workshop, and for the past few months I have been researching the equipment I would like to put in it. I haven't yet actually bought any major equipment (other than a Festool TS55 and CTL36).

I am looking to two different "types" of things to do:

- Using melamine sheet products to refit a kitchen, office storage and a few other projects around the home that will use melamine or similar material.
- Using solid hardwoods to produce things like night stands, tables, chairs and so on for around the home.
- After the "required" home projects are done, I want to use these tools to do things for fun (though the above also will be fun) - a big attraction to me is the Incra positioner system mounted on a table saw, and being to make very accurate cuts for box making and inlays etc

I have a limited amount of space for a workshop - the area is an L shape, and think of dividing the L into three squares (top, bottom left and bottom right) - each one is 3m x 3m, and from the bottom right is a 2.4m roller door which I can open to outfeed material if need be. On that basis a table saw (think Harvey/Laguna/SawStop Professional) would fit in there, leaving some room in the rest of the shop for a workbench, and potentially bandsaw, planer/thicknesser and router table.

Apart from certain hand tools (domino, sanders etc), I had planned on buying a standard table saw (as opposed to a slider), fitting this with an Incra positioner to obtain the accuracy and repeatability for panel cuts and box making, then a router table (this to route dadoes and grooves for making rail and stile doors, perhaps with raised panels), a planer/thicknesser combo (this later on, to work on the solid hardwoods in making tables and chairs), and probably a mitre saw (sliding compound) mainly to handle the smaller material pieces. Of course, not buying this all at one time, I was looking to start with the table saw and Incra positioner, and then see where the needs took me, buying additional equipment as and when required.

Now the dilemma...

I have the possibility of buying a Felder CF351 at a good price - it will fit in the workshop given some layout changes, and using the roller door (and possibly a custom table) for outfeed. It includes a thicknesser and planer (jointer) of 300mm, which I am happy with. It includes a spindle moulder, and a sliding table saw.

My dilemma with this machine is this: I have researched the Incra positioner, and I know it can give me repeatability and accuracy to a tee - it's a brilliant system. But it won't mount on a slider - and this is where my lack of knowledge and research leaves me stuck... I have a limited time to act on this unit... and I have my doubts as to whether a slider can give me the repeatability and accuracy I am looking for in terms of both the box making and furniture/melamine work. And, I also don't properly know or understand what a spindle moulder is, and whether this can replace the router table I was planning on buying.

Can anyone offer some sage advice here? I am - at this stage - avoiding the offer on the Felder because I am not sure it will fulfill all my needs, but knowing I have no direct knowledge here makes me wonder if I am passing up a golden opportunity simply for lack of knowledge?

Hi, Welcome to the forum.

If you are cutting Melamine sheet, you will need a slider, yes you can always use your T55 with the tracks but you wont want to use it after using the slider.

Any European slider (SCM, Felder, Robland, Altendorf) can do what the Incra can do with better accuracy, but same thing cant be said the other way.

The spindle moulder is like a larger router, but more versatile than a router for bigger things, the spindle moulder will spin at about 10k RPM, router normally 20k RPM.

You wont regret going to a CF531.

If you are in Auckland I can give you a tour of a combination machine at my workshop.

by the way, CF531 has planer and jointer which really is something you need if you do solid wood, unless you have another jointer/planer available.

If I were you I will go with the CF531, but it probably wont fit in your workshop as the machine is very wide when you include operation space.

Originally Posted by Albert

Any European slider (SCM, Felder, Robland, Altendorf) can do what the Incra can do with better accuracy, but same thing cant be said the other way.

Thank you Albert for this information!

Due to my lack of knowledge (had only researched table saws of the US type, thinking a slider was out of reach financially), I am curious (based on very little reading I have been able to do) as to how a slider would be more accurate/repeatable in cutting certain pieces - I know with the Incra I can dial up an exact measurement and it will lock into place - and I can dial up the ability to slice a 2mm "wafer" off a piece of timber (think inlays and box making here), but I see no comparative method to do this on the slider machine?

Sorry to trouble with further questions...

Originally Posted by Midnight Man

Thank you Albert for this information!

Due to my lack of knowledge (had only researched table saws of the US type, thinking a slider was out of reach financially), I am curious (based on very little reading I have been able to do) as to how a slider would be more accurate/repeatable in cutting certain pieces - I know with the Incra I can dial up an exact measurement and it will lock into place - and I can dial up the ability to slice a 2mm "wafer" off a piece of timber (think inlays and box making here), but I see no comparative method to do this on the slider machine?

Sorry to trouble with further questions...

Any panel saw can lock in place and give you repeatability on either cross cut side or rip side, some fancy panel saw allows you to do even 0.1mm increment and motorised like a CNC so you push a button it will go to the preset dimension automatically and hold in place (its motorised), the incra jig is more of a poor man's panel saw.

to compare Incra jig with Felder CF531 is really like comparing a single engine Cessna to a Boeing 787 or Airbus A380, more or less.

Originally Posted by Midnight Man

Thank you Albert for this information!

Due to my lack of knowledge (had only researched table saws of the US type, thinking a slider was out of reach financially), I am curious (based on very little reading I have been able to do) as to how a slider would be more accurate/repeatable in cutting certain pieces - I know with the Incra I can dial up an exact measurement and it will lock into place - and I can dial up the ability to slice a 2mm "wafer" off a piece of timber (think inlays and box making here), but I see no comparative method to do this on the slider machine?

Sorry to trouble with further questions...

That is the kind of job I wouldn't do on a sliding panel saw, unless you want to retrieve those 2mm wafers out of your dust collector. The nature of the slider is the table runs alongside the blade, so zero clearance inserts are not something you see, especially with a scribe blade as well. But I wouldn't do it on a table saw of any kind, because the kerf of the blade means the wastage exceeds 50 percent. A bandsaw is much less wasteful.

The crosscut fence and stops can be positioned very accurately, but material under 150mm wide isn't really suitable to cut on a slider without a jig to hold the material. But there is no reason why you can't use jigs on a slider if you want to. The crosscut fence can be fitted to either the leading or trailing edge on the crosscut table, so there are mounting points for a jig that are are adjustable to square with the blade that allow you to quickly switch between the fence and jigs. If you really wanted to, you can lock the slider, position the crosscut table where you want, and use a jig that incorporates zero clearance and incra positioning.

Another thing that is worth considering is with the CF531 having a spindle moulder the sliding table works with this, an important safety feature when you don't have a power feed. In my Minimax combo's previous life, it had been adapted to mount a router so the slider could be used with that as well as the spindle moulder. Not in a manner safe enough for my liking, but I may revisit the idea because it's an alternative means for cutting dados - panel saws aren't normally used with trenching blades, most don't take them at all.

Oh, do not pass up the CF531. That level of quality and functionality changes the way you work. You'll regret not having it.

Hi Midnight Man,
I fully agree with all of the comments suggestiong you get the Felder CF-351 as it will be ideal for your needs providing you have it well positioned in your available space . For over 7 years I was using a Minimax Cu classic 300 combi machine for furniture , melamine kitchen cabinets and mostly for my box making. I frequently cut down full sized sheets of melamine and this is where the second scorer blade makes a big difference as well as with large veneered ply sheets. I also found the safety aspects of the slider function important relative to cabinet saws and in furniture making I often started with large slabs of blackwood that were clamped to the slider and passed by the blade to get a square edge. These slabs were than run through the bandsaw against the edge to get smaller boards that were thicknessed and moulded using the various machine functions. For boxmaking I made boards of around 100mm wide and usually 10mm thick again using the slider supported by the bandsaw to minimise waste when resawing. I also would add for safe operation of the spindle moulder I fitted a power feeder and I would not recommend you using the Felder spindle moulder function unless you have the power feeder fitted. I recently downsized and in my new smaller 7.2x6m workshop I replaced the Cu300 with a smaller SC-2 slider panel saw which also does all of the above functions with ease.
Cheers,
Paintman

I'll swap you my brand new Incra positioner for your Felder CF 351. I'll even throw in 2 extra new positioners as backups.

Hey honey we have to double the shed space coz I just traded in for a new tool!

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Digital measuring can be added to fences on the slider if you find the repeatability is not good enough. Any digital add on is a custom job but it is not mission impossible, I put a Wixey on my rip fence of my K3 for instance and it was relatively easy to do. If you want to have a look at mine PM me and we can arrange it. Buy the machine first and ask questions later would be my advice as they do not appear on the market that often.

Thank you to all who posted here with good advice. Apologies for not getting back to this thread earlier, fate has dealt a bit of a hand in the ultimate decision here - something has come up that will prevent me from affording this machine - such is life at times

As far as I know - at least as of the day after I posted here, the machine is still for sale, but I'm not sure if I should post the information here (it's not my machine, not my sale etc).

I would be delighted to share the information if anyone is interested in making a purchase, please perhaps drop me a PM?