Thread: New Woodman SB10/12 Table Saw Problems

This is pretty much the same saw as I brought and the main centre section of table was reasonably flat except for a small area around the throat plate which had not been ground perfectly. When I fitted the extension wings I found that they did not sit perfectly flat, but for the small amount I was able to push them down a little and then lock them in place with the screws that go through the angle iron at the front and rear of the table.
Does yours have the angles at the front and rear for the fence to ride on? It's hard to tell from the picture on the link.

Hi Guitr. Your post is an interesting one because it may well explain why there is some variability in the quality of these machines - if they're not all from the same company. I just went down to check my Woodman and found the table on the rhs of the throat was dead flat and on the lhs it has a slight hollow, like yours and its in exactly the same place as yours, but its less then 0.06mm (the minimum I can reliably measure) and is only about 100mm long, so I guess it counts as flat too - or at least I'm prepared to consider it within spec bearing in mind the dollars paid for the machine.

Anyway, dealing with the question of whether it matters or not, and leaving aside the issue of whether we should ever put up with poor service and substandard goods, I'd have to say for my pattern of work it would not. For ripping boards, I use the fence on the right and cant ever imagine using the fence on the left, so the flat section of the table is in use. The fact that the left side has a slight dip has no consequence except if I was doing a very narrow rip with a very wide offcut on a very short board - but why would you ever use a saw like that ?

For ripping small items I use a Grr-ripper, which could be used on the lhs but why would you - I would think it just unsafe because all the safety habits are built up around consistent use on the rhs.

For panels, same applies, working from the rhs.

For crosscuts, though I have an Incra Mitre 1000HD, I do any work requiring precision using tablesaw sleds. Obviously they span the majority of the table and are not affected by dips here or there.

I use the Incra for semi-precision work or where I dont have a ready-made sled. There could be an issue there - depending upon the length of the timber being cut and its potential to lie within the dip. It wouldnt worry me as long as I know the dip is there, as when I need precision I aways set the blade using a bevel box, referencing the lhs of the table where necessary.

I read Simops post on his saw and personally I'd be much more worried about the other faults with his machine, especially the one where the angle of the blade changes as it is raised or lowered. That would make the saw almost unusable for me.

Of course I'd still try to get it rectified, in case some use comes along which I've never considered. You paid for a flat table.

cheers
Arron

Originally Posted by Treecycle

When I fitted the extension wings I found that they did not sit perfectly flat, but for the small amount I was able to push them down a little and then lock them in place with the screws that go through the angle iron at the front and rear of the table.
Does yours have the angles at the front and rear for the fence to ride on? It's hard to tell from the picture on the link.

There is a whole bunch of holes on the front side, but only one on each side at the back:
FrontHoles01.jpg

I'm not sure the Incra rails I'm planning to attach are going to be strong enough to hold the end tables down at all.
I might remove the left side table altogether and make a removable sliding table for it.

Hopefully I'll be able to find a 12" blade for it today and do some tests to see if it will be a problem.

***Also, the motor only has an RPM of 2850. Isn't that a little on the low side?

Ditto, 2850 rpm. No issues at all with how it cuts - with either 10 or 12 inch blades.

It is important to buy good blades, like any saw. The 'green' blade that most of them come packaged with is of course rubbish.
Arron

Originally Posted by guitr

There is a whole bunch of holes on the front side, but only one on each side at the back:

My saw has 2 bolts which go into the main centre table to support the angle iron guide, and then each wing has a hole about half way across which I used to apply a small amount of downward force on the wings to level them up.
I was under the impression all these saws were the same design, but maybe not exactly.

I spoke with the people at WWWH again and they had already ordered me another table from Taiwan so it should get here in the next few weeks. Maybe they (or I) was having a bad day the last time we spoke, because this time I got a much better impression and was left feeling like everything will get resolved.

We also spoke about some of the issues and concerns others have had with this model saw:
- the black "locking" knobs on the two hand wheels are not designed to lock the wheels in place so they can't move at all, but are there to provide enough resistance so that they won't move when the saw is in operation.
- likewise, the red adjustable bevel lock on the front of the saw is a friction lock and is not designed to make the hand wheel immovable but stop the angle changing while the saw is running. When I tightened mine it was definately harder to turn the hand wheel.
- the table insert isn't that good, but since most of us make our own zero clearance inserts it's not really a major issue.

I have one of these and I have not had any of these problems. Also I put a 12 inch blade in the thing and it cuts fine. The only issue is the nut for the blade is on the side of the fence (RHS) where it gets in the way sometimes.

Originally Posted by Arron

Hi Guitr. Your post is an interesting one because it may well explain why there is some variability in the quality of these

I read Simops post on his saw and personally I'd be much more worried about the other faults with his machine, especially the one where the angle of the blade changes as it is raised or lowered. That would make the saw almost unusable for me.
cheers
Arron

Guys I thought I'd chip in; seeing that I was mentioned in dispatches

My take on this saw is that you get what you pay for. For the money they are relatively good value depending whether you are one of the lucky ones
What I mean is that these multi-branded imports from China/Taiwan/Korea are done to a mass produced low cost (cheap) basis and hence somewhat hit & miss when it comes to quality assurance.

Some of you have been lucky and got one that's no issue of the press.....lucky you! Others like me got a not so good a unit with issues. Which then becomes a matter of degree of issue. Some more critical then others.

In my case I got the saw home and found the top not level. This was not good enough. Got another top exchanged and found the same problem so decided to get it re-ground flat by a professional shop. $400 later I have a perfectly flat top that I should have had in the first place! But heck I was happy. The engineer said that the Asian castings are thin and therefore not unusual to be prone to deformity in manufacture.

Then a few months later realised that it was not me but that as the blade is moved up and down it moves laterally. Not angled, it's still straight and perpendicular to the table but moves laterally towards the fence as it is raised. See pic below....it moves from 0 at the table to 0.8mm when fully raised.

I honestly couldn't be bothered by now to chase this one up with the vendor and just live with it. It's a nuisance for some cuts but not a major one.

Would i buy this saw again.....definitely No. In hindsight I should have saved for another year and bought a known brand name unit where the quality control is better and castings thicker, stronger and accurately engineered. Sure probably still from Asia but with better quality control. After all a table saw is an important long term investment.....have the patience to save another grand and buy the saw you deserve!

Cheers
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Simops,

I have to ask - What would be your recommended saw?
(Assuming I don't have the money for a Hammer or such that I keep hearing about!)

I know there is a lot of discussion and recomendations in related threads, and I have been reading all with interest, but as you appear to have a good understanding of the issues with your saw I would be keen to hear your advice.

Regards

Bauldy

Bauldy......my preference, given another chance, would be for either a Powermatic or Saw Stop but they are quite expensive. The later not because it has the saw stop feature but because of the build.


There was also a saw that Carba-tec sold some time ago (but doesn't anymore) from Tiawan that was very well built and solid but it was a thousand more than the SB12 so didn't get it because the SB12 had all the features so thought wow that's OK, not remembering that you get what you pay for and if something is a thousand less with same features than there are going to be compromises somewhere along the line.


For now it will do having invested a further $400+ on it.


for those interested that have the SB12 also known as the 12M10A, I also improved my fence (see pic previous post) so that it has a more solid surface (I didn't like the supplied thin extrusion that had a twist in it), now I also have only a 1.5mm gap underneath the fence allowing thin stock to be ripped without having to put an auxiliary fence on it.
Also I lowered the switch so that I can turn it off with my knee easily which I prefer (pic below).


cheers


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Originally Posted by simops

Bauldy......my preference, given another chance, would be for either a Powermatic or Saw Stop but they are quite expensive. The later not because it has the saw stop feature but because of the build.

Actually, I think you'll be having to save a lot more then an extra thousand to get either of those machines. Therein lies the problem - what do you buy that is just a bit more expensive but is absolutely and genuinely better. I looked up to about $2200 but all I could find were saws of much the same quality (I suspect, though its just an assessment based on floor models) but with things I dont need hanging off - like sliding tables.

cheers
Arron

Agreed Aaron that the Powermatic standard of saws will cost more, well over the 3k mark. When I was making the reference to a thousand more I wasn't actually referring to these but instead to another saw that I was looking at, at Carba-tec....the TSCE-10L which was $2600 worth....no longer available. I could see that it was a quality saw. Instead went for the SB12 because it got good reviews here plus t had the same features and of course a thousand less!!!!

In hind sight I should have looked closer and it would have been obvious that the level of quality was not the same. At that time I bought the SB12 for $1550....cheapest here. I could have bought it slightly cheaper interstate but by the time I added shipping same price. Then add the extra $450 that I spent 'fixing' it the saw cost me $2000. Well the rest is history......penny wise, pound foolish!

So my experience is such that given another chance I would spend more and get the quality I expect.......others here have been lucky with this saw and got it with no issues out of the box......I didn't. Don't get me wrong though.....it's at a level know after money spent and much tweaking that I'm relatively happy with it.....it does the job!

Cheers

Thanks for the response Simops.
Arron is right in that there seems to be a gap between the $1500 type saws and then the very expensive.
It would be nice if we could have the SB10/12 type saw with perhaps a bit better quality control, heavier table etc and be prepared to pay just a bit more.

Regards

Bauldy

I purchased an MBS300 a few years ago from WWWH. This is a quality saw that was flat within a couple of mm over the entire table and extensions and definately flat on the main table near the blade.

You can get the little brother mbs250 for around the extra 1000 you were talking about. This thing has a huge motor and nothing slows it down.

Riving knife comes standard.

Only issue I have is blade guard is not so good but the riving knife is more important anyway





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