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3rd January 2019, 04:25 PM #1Intermediate Member
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16" Combination Planer Thicknesser Options
I'm looking for a combination planer thicknesser to replace my Powermatic 8" helical head jointer and Major 15" thicknesser. I often work with stock that is roughly 14" wide, which i currently flatten one face with hand planes and then use the thicknesser to bring the other face parallel. So, if I go with a combo machine, I'd really need to go with a 16" model. It seems that I have only two options: the Woodman or the Hammer A3-41.
There's enough info on the forums, mostly related to the Hammer A3-31, that leads one to think that the A3-41 is an absolutely fantastic machine. However, there is far less info available on the Woodman machines. Since the Hammer A3-41 is likely to cost somewhere in the $8k range and the Woodman is a tick over $5k, it's reasonable to conclude that the Hammer is definitely a better machine. But, does that mean that I'd be disappointed with the Woodman?
One reason I'm hesitant about the Woodman is that I recent owned a Jet 12" combo and the infeed table was twisted, making it impossible to get the tables co-planar. This cause the machine to produce boards that were not flat, and there was no way to rectify it. Since the Woodman combo machines look very similar to the Jets, and are similarly priced, I wonder if they suffer from similar quality issues.
Apart from most likely having better fit and finish than the Woodman 16" combo, I wonder what other benefits might be offered by the Hammer A3-41? The digital height gauge and the spiral cutterhead on the Hammer both look better than their Woodman counterparts. Also, the Hammer has longer tables.
In relation to combo machines typically having shorter tables than standalone jointers, is there a reliable rule of thumb for the longest workpiece that can be flattened on tables of a given length? With handplanes, most people say that a plane can flatten a workpiece roughly double its length. Does this hold for jointers? Further, when trying to flatten long workpieces, what options are there for providing additional infeed and/or outfeed support? Hammer sell extension tables for their combo machines... is it practicable to achieve support with shop-made fixtures? If so, then the shorter tables on combo machines would seem to not be a significant compromise for most woodworkers.
I'd really appreciate feedback from anyone with first-hand experience with the Hammer and/or Woodman machines. I expect the overwhelming response will be that the Hammer is a better machine. But, is it worth the increased price?
Cheers,
Nic.
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3rd January 2019, 05:03 PM #2Member
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There's also the Minimax FS41... but that makes the Hammer look cheap. Perhaps used? Here's a 400mm jointer for cheap: https://www.machines4u.com.au/view/a...-400mm/465456/
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3rd January 2019, 05:48 PM #3Intermediate Member
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Thanks for the very quick reply!
Yes, I just stumbled across the Minimax FS41, and as you correctly point out, it's significantly more expensive than the other machines... definitely out of my price range.
I should have pointed out in my original post that I'm limited to single phase machines only. I don't have any particular issue with used machinery, but I do want to get a helical head and would prefer this to come with the machine as OE. I would be surprised to see many used 16" combo machines with a helical head.
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3rd January 2019, 06:59 PM #4Member
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I'm sure you're correct. I was speaking to the Felder Perth folk not long ago, and Con told me they only sell the occasional straight-knife machine these days, and apparently you practically have to give away straight-knife machines to move them on the used market.
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3rd January 2019, 08:27 PM #5Taking a break
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2 to 2.5x the length of the outfeed table is pretty doable without extra supports, once you get past that a roller stand is a big help to support the weight of the piece and to keep it from tipping, especially with heavy timber. If you are able to hold long pieces level you essentially have infinite infeed table length, so support is not needed, but this does take practice to get right.
You could make up table extensions with sections of kitchen worktop cut to size, bolted/clamped to the table with a leg at the other end for support. The laminate surface is both slippery and hard-wearing.
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3rd January 2019, 08:38 PM #6Taking a break
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Second hand Minimax here https://www.machines4u.com.au/view/a...joiner/464950/
You should be able to get a helical head fitted for $2k or less.
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4th January 2019, 07:16 AM #7Intermediate Member
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4th January 2019, 07:20 AM #8
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4th January 2019, 12:34 PM #9Intermediate Member
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Hi Ian, thanks for your contribution. I should have been clearer in my original post. I am looking for a ~16" combination machine with a spiral cutterblock, and require it to be single phase. I don't think this is a major issue, apart from essentially limiting me to new machines, as it's very unlikely that I'd see a used machine the met my requirements. There seems to be only three options for new machines here in Australia: the Woodman 410, Hammer A3-41 and the Minimax FS41. These machines retail for approximately $5k, $8k and $11k, respectively. There's no way I could afford the Minimax, so I need to decide between the Woodman and the Hammer. I have some reluctance towards the Woodman due to some first-hand experience with poor quality on a Jet combo machine. It might be unfair of me to throw Woodman under the bus with Jet, but given that all machines are made to a price point, and the Woodman machines are in a similar price range to comparable Jet machines, I have some reservations.
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4th January 2019, 12:58 PM #10Novice
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Another thing to consider in your final decision is the back and support for the machine, not sure where you are but the guys at Felder/Hammer (WA) are pretty good. The A3-41 is an excellent machine, very easy to use and you will not be disappointed.
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4th January 2019, 01:54 PM #11SENIOR MEMBER
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Robland SD410 will likely to be less expensive than Hammer A3-41, and it has spiral cutter block. I think it will be better than Woodman and it is made in Belgium.
I had a Robland NX410 full combination machine before, the build quality was good. I used it for 5 years. If I can travel back in time, will I buy it again? yes I would.SCM L'Invincibile si X, SCM L'Invincibile S7, SCM TI 145EP, SCM Sandya Win 630, Masterwood OMB1V, Meber 600, Delta RJ42, Nederman S750, Chicago Pneumatics CPRS10500, Ceccato CDX12
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4th January 2019, 01:56 PM #12Taking a break
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4th January 2019, 03:39 PM #13
as standard, the Hammer (and Felder) combos are supplied with a 3 ph, 4 kW motor -- with more powerful motors available as options.
Single phase machines only have 3 kW motors. I'm wondering if a 3 kW machine will have the grunt you need.
I've a faint recollection that in the past, Hammer machines were available with a 4 kW single phase motor.
The underlying question is does your shed have the juice to run a 3 or 4 kW single phase motor plus the other essentials -- dust collector, lighting, etc. -- and if not, would the required power upgrade allow you to consider a 3 ph motor, possibly run off a VFD.regards from Alberta, Canada
ian
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4th January 2019, 05:18 PM #14Intermediate Member
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According to the manufacturer, the standard 3 phase motor on the A3-41 (and the A3-31) is, in fact, a 3.0 kW motor, with no more powerful options available. There is much praise on these forums and elsewhere for the Hammer combo machines and amongst the small number of negative comments, I do not recall anyone complaining about a lack of power. In fact, the manufacturer claims that the machine is capable of a 4mm depth of cut, and I recall some forum posts backing this claim.
With respect, I don't think the underlying question has anything to do with the wiring in my workshop. I'm not trying to boil the ocean. I just want to get a 16" combo machine, have narrowed it down to a Woodman and a Hammer, and am trying to draw on the collective wisdom of other forum members who have experience with one or both of these machines. Given that noone has jumped to the defence of the Woodman (or Jet) combo machines, I think I need to gather my pennies and pony up for the Hammer.
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4th January 2019, 05:39 PM #15Taking a break
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Just remember that 4mm is the theoretical maximum. You might get it on narrow pieces but at full width the motor will struggle with more than 1mm and even that depth might be pushing it.
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