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  1. #16
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    glad to help, I agree the fence on Hammer machine doesnt look that great, I have only seen them a few times at Felder agents display room, I cant imagine what they look like after a few years of use. Personally I like a lot of steel on my machines.

    Older SCM is good but like you said its prohibitive to fit spiral head.

    Just buy the machine and get it over with, how to buy the right machine? if your wife ever gonna ask the price of the machine and you have to halve it then you are doing it right.
    SCM L'Invincibile si X, SCM L'Invincibile S7, SCM TI 145EP, SCM Sandya Win 630, Masterwood OMB1V, Meber 600, Delta RJ42, Nederman S750, Chicago Pneumatics CPRS10500, Ceccato CDX12



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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert View Post
    glad to help......

    Just buy the machine and get it over with, how to buy the right machine? if your wife ever gonna ask the price of the machine and you have to halve it then you are doing it right.
    Thanks - I have noted your well considered advice!

    As someone once said I don’t have a problem dying - it’s just that my wife may sell my machinery for what I said I paid for It!

  4. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert View Post
    glad to help, I agree the fence on Hammer machine doesnt look that great, I have only seen them a few times at Felder agents display room, I cant imagine what they look like after a few years of use. Personally I like a lot of steel on my machines....
    I have had my A3-31 about 4 years now. The fence looks as original. I plane WA hardwoods.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by warmtone View Post
    Just out of interest is anyone using the Powermatc 15 inch Thicknesser?
    An option for me is to supplement my Jet 8’” jointer with a Byrd cutter and just buy a good Thicknesser keeping the total cost under $5K.

    The Powermatic seems to be proven and well built @$4K.

    I sold a 15" Powermatic to buy a Hammer A3-31 and i would not swap back. Be aware that the fence on the A3 is not the best fence in the world but it does the job ok. The PM did not do anything wrong, I just think the A3 is a better machine.
    CHRIS

  6. #20
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    no worries mate, you gotta have good fence on the JP combo if you use your JP a lot, in the 5 years that I owned the Robland, 2 of that was semi production use. The fence is ok for hobbyist use, but not ideal for production - the fence does not stay perpendicular to the table top after a few hundred metres of buzzing. hence I moved to AD951.
    SCM L'Invincibile si X, SCM L'Invincibile S7, SCM TI 145EP, SCM Sandya Win 630, Masterwood OMB1V, Meber 600, Delta RJ42, Nederman S750, Chicago Pneumatics CPRS10500, Ceccato CDX12



  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert View Post
    no worries mate, you gotta have good fence on the JP combo if you use your JP a lot, in the 5 years that I owned the Robland, 2 of that was semi production use. The fence is ok for hobbyist use, but not ideal for production - the fence does not stay perpendicular to the table top after a few hundred metres of buzzing. hence I moved to AD951.
    As an aside, I visited SCM in Melbourne today hoping to view an FS 30 to compare with the Hammer A3 30.

    They did not have one on display but instead I viewed the professional FS 41E with the helical head.
    This is a beast with absolutely no issues with the industrial strength fence - it looked superbly eengineered everywhere with no compromises in fit or finish.

    The FS 41E is the sort machine that makes you fee good even when it’s not running!
    It’s hard not to be impressed with the scope of superb high end Italian machinery SCM produces - including their own castings.

    But the FS30 is not in the same class from what I can gather from my research and may be no better than the A3 30 Hammer - albeit at a slightly lower price.

    But alas some entry level SCM machinery is now made in China including the highly regarded SP45 MiniMax Bandsaw.

    I wonder if the Hammer A3 30 is actually Austrian made?

  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by warmtone View Post
    As an aside, I visited SCM in Melbourne today hoping to view an FS 30 to compare with the Hammer A3 30.

    They did not have one on display but instead I viewed the professional FS 41E with the helical head.
    This is a beast with absolutely no issues with the industrial strength fence - it looked superbly eengineered everywhere with no compromises in fit or finish.

    The FS 41E is the sort machine that makes you fee good even when it’s not running!
    It’s hard not to be impressed with the scope of superb high end Italian machinery SCM produces - including their own castings.

    But the FS30 is not in the same class from what I can gather from my research and may be no better than the A3 30 Hammer - albeit at a slightly lower price.

    But alas some entry level SCM machinery is now made in China including the highly regarded SP45 MiniMax Bandsaw.

    I wonder if the Hammer A3 30 is actually Austrian made?
    There has been a lot of contention about that but no proof and this bloke who toured the factory thinks not, he starts talking about the factory tour early into the video. Intersesting that the SP45 is made in China, is that from the horses mouth so to speak or third hand?

    CHRIS

  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Parks View Post
    There has been a lot of contention about that but no proof and this bloke who toured the factory thinks not, he starts talking about the factory tour early into the video. Intersesting that the SP45 is made in China, is that from the horses mouth so to speak or third hand?

    The info I provided on the entry level minimax bs came from a salesman yesterday. He advised Higher end models are still made in Italy. I was assured that even though the SP45 is assembled in China with a Chinese Frame - the castings are SCM and exported from Italy! Very strange set up indeed and places questions about the cost of an SP45 if it is made in China.

    To add more intrigue “I Wood Like” ( to me a really dumb name) is an outlet for some SCM products and cheaper stuff branded with this name is made in China. I Wood Like is a seperate seperate website that lists both SCM and the above brand.

    It seems the edges of the true origin of “European” machinery is blurry with no guarantees anymore.

  10. #24
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    In my quest to discover the true merits of the Hammer A3-31, I came across this well written encouraging article. It has some very clear pictures of the machine which I found helpful.

    Heartwood » jointer-planer combo

    This is an excellent website for general woodworking information - some very useful info.

    The above article was written by a dedicated woodworker who has owned this machine for several years and has critically checked the precision of the machine. It was written around 2014 and predates the spiral cutter head but still has good information on table alignment for optimum results.

    I conclude the Hammer A3-31 is a very well designed/built machine and capable of excellent results.

  11. #25
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    I have started to consider further options before buying the A3 31 including older machines from SCM - is anyone using the FS41 or FS35? I would be interested in opinions.

  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by warmtone View Post
    I have started to consider further options before buying the A3 31 including older machines from SCM - is anyone using the FS41 or FS35? I would be interested in opinions.
    Its great to know you are considering other options.

    These industrial thicknesser combo, they can all do what they are design to do, thickness and plane, what you might need to consider is after sales service and how far is the closest agent to service your machine, sometimes it comes down to colour.

    When I was buying for my new JP combo I really liked and wanted to have a SCM in my shop, but knowing the following:
    1. SCM dont seem to care too much about Oceania market (too little compare to rest of the world, NZ SCM agent Gabbetts told me this before they left NZ). there were cases where you have to pay first before your machine receive its service, I am not sure if this is still true today.
    2. SCM has no JP combo for immediate delivery, closest is in Rimini, Italy, and earliest is 6 months wait, Felder has 1 in display and 1 in stock, both only 2 weeks into the country.
    3. SCM Service agent is too far away (40km compare to Felder being 2km away).

    if you are buying second hand, I see it as an investment to pay a technician to inspect the machine before you buy. anything that goes wrong on these industrial machine, it will not be cheap to fix.
    SCM L'Invincibile si X, SCM L'Invincibile S7, SCM TI 145EP, SCM Sandya Win 630, Masterwood OMB1V, Meber 600, Delta RJ42, Nederman S750, Chicago Pneumatics CPRS10500, Ceccato CDX12



  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert View Post
    Its great to know you are considering other options.

    These industrial thicknesser combo, they can all do what they are design to do, thickness and plane, what you might need to consider is after sales service and how far is the closest agent to service your machine, sometimes it comes down to colour.

    When I was buying for my new JP combo I really liked and wanted to have a SCM in my shop, but knowing the following:
    1. SCM dont seem to care too much about Oceania market (too little compare to rest of the world, NZ SCM agent Gabbetts told me this before they left NZ). there were cases where you have to pay first before your machine receive its service, I am not sure if this is still true today.
    2. SCM has no JP combo for immediate delivery, closest is in Rimini, Italy, and earliest is 6 months wait, Felder has 1 in display and 1 in stock, both only 2 weeks into the country.
    3. SCM Service agent is too far away (40km compare to Felder being 2km away).

    if you are buying second hand, I see it as an investment to pay a technician to inspect the machine before you buy. anything that goes wrong on these industrial machine, it will not be cheap to fix.
    Thanks for the advice above - there are clearly many things to consider and you raise valid issues.

    Gabbet is no more according to SCM sales people who advised me SCM bought them out a couple of years ago. They actually have an FS30 in stock and have offered me an inspection.
    But I suspect this entry level machine is Chinese made and if I am paying 6 grand I want genuine Italian.

    Im looking at older machines because they provide an industrial package - real fences, long beds and no compromise engineering count. Yes it’s probably overkill for a Home woodworker - but If you can accomodate 3 phase and manage the weight issue they can represent excellent value for money and in my opinion leave any of the Chinese knock off’s for dead.

    i had a play with a 15 year old SCM on the weekend and it was surprisingly quiet for a 3 knife machine.
    It made the DeWalt 735 and Jet 8CCS (now sold) look like toys. At 105dBA planing hardwood the DeWalt 735 will not be missed !

    I am not phased by pulling a machine down to replace bearings or lubricate the chains. Really there’s not much to go wrong - but the biggest caveat is the cost of upgrading the head to a Byrd @ 2K plus.....

    And this is where the Hammer A3 31 wins - it ticks all the boxes albeit in a small package with a few compromises - like a short 1.5m bed that requires you to buy expensive extensions.

  14. #28
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    If you are going to consider an SCM product, especially a second hand machine, think very hard about whether you are going to need after sales/service support. It is basically non-existant. At work, we recently waited for over a week to have a phone call returned to make a service appointment. That was just to make an appointment, we then had to wait further for the technician to turn up. This may not be an issue for the home woodworker, but for a business, to have a machine out of service is a big deal. Not everyone carries a spare edgebander in their back pocket.
    That said, the machines seem to be quite good, as long as they don't break down.

  15. #29
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    I can totally agree with the previous post....getting any service from the importers is difficult and even more so when you get out of the major cities. I live near Tamworth so I know first hand about the lack of service.

    Now about machines being bought second hand. I picked up a SCM Panel Saw from Sydney. When I arrived to put it onto my trailer the saw was dangling on the end of an overhead crane so I didn't get to see if the thing worked or not. Got it home and unloaded it (it weighs just on a tonne) set it up did a check to see if it was cutting square and.....yes it was!!! I's a 1983 model and has had more than one owner and it was cutting as well as it did when it was new. I had used SCM gear before and knew that they were a well engineered machine.

    In your case, buying second hand, really there is not much that can go wrong apart from a catastrophic accident like falling from a fork lift. My Panel Saw needed new bearings on the main saw shaft. The manual (Found on the internet) even described how to dismantle and reinstall new bearings. They cost me around $100 and took only hours to do the job. These type of machines are really only basic so fixing them is pretty easy

    PS I meant to say as well, that I picked up second hand again, a LS Barker 12" Jointer and a 12" Jeffwood Thicknesser. These to are a 50s manufacture, HEAVY cast iron structure, and again very simply engineered, so making them easy to maintain. A set of bearings is not expensive and easy to install if necessary
    Just do it!

    Kind regards Rod

  16. #30
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    I was in that dilema as well. I dont mind older machine but no spiral/Byrds on them, and potential issues with service is a big no no as my woodworking is an income to me.

    I also like newer machine where it ticked all the boxes and comes with peace of mind with warranty and parts availability

    At the end - new machine with silent power head won - I just need to make more sales or think of new product to recoup the cost, yes it will depreciate but arnt we all.

    If wood working is not an income to me and I am only a weekender then perhaps I may settle with Hammer or Robland. seems to tick all boxes.
    SCM L'Invincibile si X, SCM L'Invincibile S7, SCM TI 145EP, SCM Sandya Win 630, Masterwood OMB1V, Meber 600, Delta RJ42, Nederman S750, Chicago Pneumatics CPRS10500, Ceccato CDX12



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