Thread: Hammer A3 31 Thicky/Jointer - a good machine, but buyer beware of certain aspects

C'mon FF, don't leave us hanging in suspense !! How frustrating is this .. Have you chased up any other users to see if they have similiar experiences?

Looking forward to the next instalment, and thanks for sharing. I always thought Hammer was the Rolls Royce

Gotta eat and chill for a bit Dengy, although the next post is nearly done.

Maybe not the RR, as that would have to go to a Martin T/J combo (at about $30k or summint). But certainly a very, very good machine (say a Benz) with some really silly things that are so easily overcome (also possibly like a Benz).

THE NOT SO GOOD:

FENCE
The fence is a very rigid alum extrusion which can vary between 90° and 135° to give 45° bevels. It is supported in the middle and the end of the infeed, but floats in the air at the outfeed end. At the more important infeed end it does not yield to pressure, but as the cut progresses and pressure is applied to the outfeed end then it will move around. This is undesirable, and could be fixed by having the fence support bracket bolted to the table in the same way as it is at the infeed end. The fence would have to be able to move up and down within this bracket, but it only needs a little bit of lateral support to stiop this movement. I may need to do some technique adjusting or it may just be a psychological thing. Either way, it's no big deal.

The angle guide is one of those stick on printed jobbies which are prone to error, and only as accurate as when they were assembled on some test bed (I guess). The fence is NOT fitted to the machine when it is delivered. One of the things that can affect the actual angle of the fence is how accurately the supporting bracket of the supporting bracket (no typo there) is fixed to the cast iron table. This is VERY tricky to do and get absolutely parallel to the table because of the poor engineering involved in the design. It would be MUCH better if this was fitted at the factory, as it is mandatory. I thought I had it right but today I noted that the primary bracket is 1/3mm out from back to front. I also have to have the fence at -½° to get a proper 90° jointing, and it may well be that this 1/3mm is the cause of that. Checking and adjustment to be done tomorrow.

DIGITAL DISPLAY
This looks to be pretty accurate to a resolution of 0.1mm, and I will find out more about it tomorrow. It is not actually digital though - it does have digits on it - the same as the old fashioned odometer in cars, so it's quite analogue. It doesn't fit the supplied handlewheel so a new one has to be fitted at a cost of $52 (just for the handwheel). So why not fit the correct handwheel to it in the first place and leave the centre cap in place for those who don't upgrade to the "digital" display? The upgrade wheel is far more robust anyway.

INSTRUCTION MANUAL
Some parts of this are a joke. There is a Gear lever which must be engaged for thicknessing. It does not say why this must be engaged, nor why it is important to disengage it when not thicknessing (either when the machine is idle or in Jointing mode). When you actually ask what it's for and why it is important to disengage it you will find out that it is to activate the rollers for pulling the timber through the thicknesser (which I had deduced, but sought verification), and if left engaged it can result in a flat spot on the rollers. Too easy to cough up this info in the instructions.

The most befuddling part of this is the Gear Lever is that it is shown in the overall nomenclature diagram at the start of the booklet (and that it should be engaged for thicknessing), but in the section for "Retooling from Jointer to Thicknesser" it is not mentioned in any way. The sales rep seemed to think that because it is mentioned once it should be ok. "So why is everything else mentioned again in the retooling section?" No answer. "And tell me what would be wrong with mentioning it again? Would it detract from anything, or would it just be very clear?". Begrudging acknowledgement that it wouldn't detract, and possibly needs to be mentioned again.

THE COMPLETE WASTE OF MONEY ITEMS:

400mm TABLE EXTENSION
The bracket on a bracket has further implications for the 400mm table extension, as the extension also hooks on to it (which means it interferes with the fence movement back and forth). This could be easily solved by having the fence bracket going underneath the table so that they are two separate items. Now this extension is quite rigid, and if you happen to luck in on the right setting (adjustment of a bolt) then it will work quite well. However, you really do have to luck in on the right setting of this bolt, because there isn't enough movement within the acces slot to allow just over 1/6 of a turn of the spanner that needs to hold it still while you tighten up the locking nut. The bolt turns as you tighten the locking nut, and it only takes a poofteenth of a turn to affect how level the extension is (think of a fulcrum and the resultant movement in level 400mm away). This whole adjustment idea is some of the worst engineering design I have seen - it is totally dysfunctional. When mentioned to the sales rep the response was "well we do heaps of them here" but in a subsequent conversation he also said that they use a spanner with a special narrow handle which apparently allows 1/6+ turn. There are separate instructions for this assembly. Actually they are not instructions for the adjustment at all - just a diagram of how the parts go together - you have to figure the rest out for yourself, and there is no way that a spanner can be used, but you MUST use a spanner to keep the adjustment in place whist tightening the locking nut.

In short, for $260 there are much better options that are far cheaper, and easier to adjust (like a roller on a stand, or a small table that you can make yourself - it only needs 4mm vertical movement allowance). I do not trust that it can be moved seamlessly from Jointer table to Thicknesser table (which is the idea) without going out of whack. There are just too many nuts and bolts involved for stability of levelness. Or they could just get a 10 year old to design a better system that can actually be adjusted accurately. The Festool CMS Table Saw has a not dissimilar system for getting it's extension wings coplaner - it too is rubbish. Somebody needs to explain to these Austrian/German engineers how a fulcrum works, what the effect of it is, and why it's important to be able to get a spanner in.

It is impossible to use an infeed extension for thicknessing - only outfeed is possible because the height adjustment handle is in the way of the infeed side (and there are no holes to bolt it to). This is mentioned nowhere in the marketing, and you'll only find out if you know to ask.

THE ROLLING CARRIAGE
The RC itself is $138. It is a 750mm long rod of 15mm dia mild steel, with two 100mm Nylon wheels (with bearings). If you can't pick that lot up for about $30 then you're not trying very hard. On the other hand, the lifting bar is $106 and much more complex than the more expensive carriage. This bar has given me ideas for incorporating a carriage into other shed items that need to be moved (other benches and similar), so the lifting bar is money well spent.

THE COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE:
A big disappointment, and so very easily overcome with a very minor effort by the Aussie agent, was trying to get the damn thing running. It was supplied without a plug, and the power lead is 500mm long - won't even reach the power point. Neither of these points were made known to me beforehand. The missing plug is no big deal, as I'm quite capable of wiring that up (long experience - don't get excited). The short lead is a different story though. To put a longer one on (say the common length of two metres) would cost the manufacturer (or the agent) about $4. It is too complex to wire into the machine a longer cable so this resulted in having to purchase 2 plugs, a socket and two metres of flex for a total of $72 (20A stuff is very expensive). Had the power lead been two metres long in the first place it would have only been $16.60 for a plug. If you require a sparky to do this for you then I would say you could add a bare minimum of $80 (making it a 2 metre extension lead for $150). It may be a requirement to have a Licenced Sparky to make this lead, depending on your particular State Jurisdiction.

The agent maintains that this is disclosed at the bottom of the invoice:
"Longer cables, plug points, wall sockets and their installation are the responsiblity of the client!!!"
Trouble is, that to me reads like "if you want a longer cable then it is up to you, and you will need to fit a plug to it", and that would be fair enough if you wanted longer than two metres. Nowhere is it mentioned that it's only a useless 500mm! And how hard is it to say "No plug supplied"?

I've done enough moaning about the detail of this here.

IN SUMMARY:

• An excellent machine, as you would expect for the price.
• Some things to watch out for or avoid.
• Definitely beware of a lack of disclosure or obfuscation or "forgetfulness" on some miserable little things that really let down the image of the agent. These little things could be very easily corrected with a tiny effort by the agent, and save getting a frustrating, long winded start. Under promise and over deliver is a much better way to go. As it is, the agent does themselves no favour by not ensuring that there are no surprises. I do not recall reading anywhere that there is some assembly required by the consumer. It does say something about that in the Instruction Manual, but that's just a tad late.

Some of the "shortcuts" on a Hammer make sense when you look at a Felder design. Eg AD741 vs A3-41. I opted for a used felder instead of a hammer.

Your extension tables clip right onto a felder without brackets.. Because the channel is machined into the cast iron - cheaper machine doesn't have that.

I agree it's a bit harsh after outlay of $5k about the wiring and carriage - you could buy a pallet jack to move it around.

Spend once and enjoy the quality

Great post FF. I'm sure anyone in the market for such a machine will appreciate the information.

A minor breakthrough today. Unfortunately not for getting the extension table level (that will remain a hit & miss challenge), but for getting it to the same height as the main table.

There is a bracket which is screwed on to the end of the table, and the extension arm hangs off this. The manual says that it should be 17mm below the table ("must be precise!!!") but the technician said to make it 17.5mm. This is a very difficult operation to perform, and is what lead to that 1/3mm error that I mentioned previously.

So, today I got Baldrick on the job, and came up with a cunning plan. The object is to get the top of the two tables co-planer, and there is a much simpler and far quicker way to do it, and there is no measuring involved - always a good thing.

The steps are:

• attach the extension table to the bracket (contrary to what the instruction book advises)
• loosen the bolts holding the bracket (under the CI table) so that they drop down
• get a piece of thickish MDF about 300x250 and clamp it to the cast iron table, letting it overhang by about 100mm (clamp as close to the CI table end as possible)
• insert a sheet of A4 paper folded in half between the overhanging MDF and the alum extension table
• using two clamps, raise the bracket up as far as it will go - clamping the bottom of the bracket and the top of the MDF
• the tables are now at the same height where they join, with a margin of error due to the folded piece of A4 paper (but this error gets absorbed)
• tighten up the bolts
• unclamp everything, and it's perfect in 5 minutes or less!

Beats the hell out of the instructed way, which is a lot of mucking around, and took about 30-60 minutes the other day (and was still slightly out).

The first time I did it was without the paper inserted, and the extension was just proud of the CI table when I passed a piece of timber across it. This is actually not a big deal because it is at the infeed so the timber wouldn't actually catch on the CI as it was fed through, but I figured that it would be easy enough to make it perfect, so I did.

Very fortunately the levelling setting on that troublesome bolt was still spot on (but I expected it to be as the tables weren't very far out).

Nice review. Sounds like some nice kit.
I've read of others with combo machines that glue the head off a stud with a hole for a hex bit to the wheel.
This way you can use your drill to speed up mode changes but this would be difficult in your case with the digital gauge in the centre of the wheel!

Still seems to be a hole in the hobby woodwork market for some with good service.

Originally Posted by hiroller

Nice review. Sounds like some nice kit.
I've read of others with combo machines that glue the head off a stud with a hole for a hex bit to the wheel.
This way you can use your drill to speed up mode changes but this would be difficult in your case with the digital gauge in the centre of the wheel!

Still seems to be a hole in the hobby woodwork market for some with good service.

Cheers Gavin. The hex-head-bolt/hex bit/drill idea is exactly what I use on my drill press table (it's a travelling table) and you're right - it's great for getting fast travel. Currently I have a dedicated cordless drill for it, but it's a super cheap Aldi jobbie, and at 200rpm max it's rather slow but better than by hand. I think I'll get another DeWalt 10.8 proper drill and dedicate it. One of the first jobs I want to do is build a new DP deck (I have a timber deck that bolts onto the travelling table) and I'll make use of the dedicated drill for various adjustment in that too (T-Track and stuff).

So, yeah, it did come to mind for raising and lowering the thicky table - but only for a moment unfotunately.

Perhaps I'll add a DRO to the thicknesser, like the one I added to the DP column for depth control, which by the way was a life changer. That way I could incorporate the drill idea there as well. It sure takes a while and you always have to go back to 170mm minimum clearance to flip over the dust hood when changing from Thicky to Jointer. Most of the time it will be set to way less than 170mm......

Brett

Glad you have got the machine, and I know you have waited a long time, but the trials and tribulations would be disappointing. I hope you can knock, metaphorically speaking, it into shape.

Regards
Paul

Hi Paul, yes, it performs wonderfully. I'm going to post some pics of the finished (difficult) timber, and that should say it all.

Forest Red Gum (Jointed, 2m/m feed speed - very, very slowly)



Detail of the tearout (not the paler highlights, they are just scuff marks)



Tallowood (jointed & thicknessed - I think this face was Jointed)
This particular piece has previously defeated my planes (for tearout), but a Veritas BU Jointer left the least tearout



Qld Maple The darker area at the bottom of the left pic is that typical furry area that one gets in QM. Now, it feels like a day's beard growth and will sand off very easily.
Not sure why I am getting the scuff marks (middle pic), but again they are no big deal and will sand off in a trice. Maybe I'm pressing down to hard when Jointing.

There is no tearout on any face of this board (and I really did expect some).




Another piece of QM


You can see a couple of lines about an inch or so in from the right. One of the little square blades had the tiniest nick in it (as delivered), and it didn't show up until I jointed a wider board. I just rotated the blade. You can also see on the left side above the knot that there is some tearout/furr that is so typical of highly figured QM.

Just a 15mm rod about 750mm long, with two 100mm Nylon wheels & Bearings. Worth $138? I don't think so - make your own for ~$30:




The "Digital" display. Looks perzackly like the odometer I had in my '64 Beetle.



The face of the dial doesn't rotate with the wheel - a gyro balanced doodat. It has to be calibrated when first fitted. The idea is that you feed a piece through the thicky, measure it with a vernier and then take out the dial, rotate it around in the air (the face stays still and vertical) until it matches the vernier, refit to the handwheel.

When I did this process I just took a "rough" reading off the yellow scale and set the dial to that (probably 50mm). When I put a piece of timber through it was only 0.1mm out! Simply release the grub screw that holds the dial in place, rotate 1/20th of a turn (one full rev is 2mm) and presto - set forever. Ah, wait a minute - take it back out and rotate 1/20th in the opposite (and correct) direction.

Helical heads are definitely the future but not sure I want the odometer style readout.
Handy hint: when rotating the tips, just do every second row. You get about 85% of the surface finish but effectively double the life of a set...and they're not cheap.

I've got the same machine (as part of my c3-31 combi) and I can agree on the finish... It's frankly amazing. I made a few xmas pressies and literally went straight from the thicknesser to 240grit before oiling. Amazing.

I'm investigating small motor with a couple of limit switches to raise and drop the table for the planer, thicknesser changeover. The cranking is a bit of a pain but not enough to make it a major issue. I just never feel like a machine is mine until I've modified it. The digital handwheel is great. Repeatability is spot on and I kinda like the analogue thing, not everything needs an LCD readout to be digital

I'm using a welding magnet on the planer top to stop deflection on the fence which is working fine.

My machine was supplied without a lead. Just the plug and the power inlet on the machine. It's a shame they cut corners on stuff like that.

Mine has no problems taking a 4mm cut flawlessly along a 300mm jarrah beam.

The prices of the accessories annoy me with this stuff. The rolling carriage was crazy (but I bought it anyway), and the extension tables were a little bit rich for my taste. It really does feel like you're getting ripped for the simple stuff with felder and hammer. I nearly bought a sanding adaptor for my spindle moulder which was $250 + $80 for the shaft extension. Then I realised I could buy a dedicated machine for the same money. I don't mind paying for precision and build quality but where's the precision in a set of nylon wheels?