Thread: Replacing the jointer motor

Sounds like a setup issue to me.

Tearout = dull blades or feed direction given that you've changed directions and still getting tearout then you've probably got dull blades. Also check the orientation of the blades are they facing the right way?
Vibration = imbalance somewhere or something is loose. Check your belt tension and pulley alignment don't assume its good out the box if you've purchased new, if purchased second hand check the entire machine over. Also check your blade heights if one blade is sticking really far out then given its a light weight machine might be enough to cause it to vibrate.
Noise = how does it compare to your thicky? jointers and thicknessers are noisy machines by nature unless you've got a spiral head even then its still reasonably loud.

1hp motor on a 6" jointer isn't uncommon so I wouldn't bother changing the motor over eg Jet does a 1hp 6" jointer. Check the motor to see if its working properly ie get someone who knows what they are doing to check the current draw etc

Thanks for the reply. It's definitely possible it's a setup issue, I've bought the jointer new and it came in many pieces. The manual wasn't very clear, and I'd never used a jointer before so could easily be I screwed something up.

Just to clarify - it doesn't vibrate on its own, this is only when I have a wide board being cut. No load or with a narrow board there's no vibration. The way it feels is like a really bad electric massager, my hand on the board just vibrates a lot As if it's bouncing the board off, instead of cutting it.

I set up the belts and pulley myself, because it didn't come assembled. I did the best I could, but I'll check everything again.

The blades were factory set up and I think they're ok. The problems have definitely gotten worse lately so could be dulling blades, but it was problematic from the start. It's still fairly new and has only seen a couple of hours of use, mostly on pine, so I wasn't expecting the blades would have gotten dull already. In terms of noise, it's much noisier than the thicknesser, but that one is spiral head so maybe that's expected.

I'll update again after implementing your suggestions.


Thanks!

yep spiral heads are significantly quieter than straight knife. to give you an indication of what kind of difference I've got a spiral head jointer and a straight knife thicky. i can have a convo with the spiral head but with the straight knife screaming is barely audible

Sounds like your knife heights are off and given that you can run narrow boards without it vibrating i suspect the end closest to you are the culprits. When i set up my thicky knives i budget for spending around half a day doing so. So don't be surprised if your knives are off from factory, you really do want all three knives being as close as possible (ideally within 0.005mm) otherwise you'll just end up dulling the one blade that sticks out the furtherest.

I wouldn't have thought you'll dull the blades after a couple of hours of use. I probably go good 6-12 months before i notice my blades getting dull and even longer before i decide i need to do something about it. I am a hobbiest so my machines do get as much of a workout as some.

That's making sense, thank you. I'll report back on the results. Cheers!

I don't think a motor upgrade would do anything either but upgrading to a helix head might solve the problem. If you have no experience in setting up straight blades then it can be a bit of a learning curve and seeing as how your thicky already has a spiral head, its a learning experience you just might want to avoid altogether. It might cost twice as much as replacing the motor, but it is a true upgrade, not just a shot in the dark that a new motor would be, and will save you heaps of time and anguish in the years to come.

Originally Posted by tonzeyd

When i set up my thicky knives i budget for spending around half a day doing so.

Wait, what?!?! How are you doing it? Before we went helical, I was changing a set of 4 knives AND grinding them (our machine had a built-in grinder) in under an hour. Not trying to be smart, I just honestly can't think of a method that would take that long.

igalic, if you're around the SE suburbs I'm happy to come past with a dial gauge to check the knife projection against the table. I might still have a set of magnetic knife holders to re-set them if needed.

I have a Carbatec 6" Jointer and when running it is very very quiet. If I run my Ryobi benchtop Thicknesser I need to wear earmuffs but I could easily have a conversation when the Jointer is running. It does make a bit more noise when actually machining timber but not a lot more on narrower boards.
If you are saying yours is loud there must be a problem with something. Here is a basic video on how to set up a Jointer tables and blades that might help you check for anything that may not be correct in the setup of your machine.
When the blades are freshly sharpened they are like razors (don't ask me how I know). If you say your wood feels like it is lifting up as the blades hit it then they could be blunt. It doesn't take much of edge lose for them not to cut very well and they get louder.
Just a silly question, I assume the cutter block is actually spinning the right direction! You just never know with an imported machine and have to think outside the square when something should be a simple process and is not working as expected.
What ever it is, it won't be due to an under powered motor so don't waste your money there.

Originally Posted by elanjacobs

Wait, what?!?! How are you doing it? Before we went helical, I was changing a set of 4 knives AND grinding them (our machine had a built-in grinder) in under an hour. Not trying to be smart, I just honestly can't think of a method that would take that long.

Ooh built in grinder that sounds real nifty

I don't have a knife setter so its a dial indicator in a jig, probably spend more time on it than i should but I'm get real finicky when i whip out the dial indicator. Plus i find it therapeutic in some kind of sick satisfaction. I find that when I'm making stuff I'm under constant stress so when i finally get around to tending to my equipment I am forced to slow down so its bit of stress relief (when it goes according to plan)

I also generally check over the machine while I'm at it eg check rollers, lubricate etc

Originally Posted by tonzeyd

I don't have a knife setter so its a dial indicator in a jig, probably spend more time on it than i should but I'm get real finicky when i whip out the dial indicator. Plus i find it therapeutic in some kind of sick satisfaction.

Worst thing I ever did was get a dial indicator. Before I got one all my machines were perfectly calibrated Now they all just a little bit off

Originally Posted by tonzeyd

I find that when I'm making stuff I'm under constant stress so when i finally get around to tending to my equipment I am forced to slow down so its bit of stress relief (when it goes according to plan)

I am with you there. I like to plan a "maintenance day" in between projects and take my time checking over the machines before reassembly. Elan is in a commercial workshop so they don't have that luxury of calling downtime I guess. I like the feeling of knowing I have loked it over and done any preventative maintenence and there should not be any surprises in the near future.

Originally Posted by tonzeyd

I also generally check over the machine while I'm at it eg check rollers, lubricate etc

Absolutely. CLean, lubricate, polish, calibrate ...

Cheers

Doug

This may not be your problem but when I recently joined the local woodies club the carbatec 6" jointer had a similar problems to what you are experiencing. Apart from tables that where not coplanar and feed out table and blades not set correctly, the main problem as far as noise and vibration was that operators where trying to take off too much with each pass. Once that was sorted out it was a different machine.

Originally Posted by doug3030

I am with you there. I like to plan a "maintenance day" in between projects and take my time checking over the machines before reassembly. Elan is in a commercial workshop so they don't have that luxury of calling downtime I guess. I like the feeling of knowing I have loked it over and done any preventative maintenence and there should not be any surprises in the near future.

We don't really need to. Blades are changed when required, other than that there's not a whole lot of preventative maintenance to be done; we just deal with problems as they arise

At the end of each year we set aside a day or two to clean the whole factory front-to-back and I'll use that time to go over all the machinery; check drive-belt tension and do any little bits and pieces that weren't mission critical during the year

Thanks for suggestions everyone, back with some updates.

I’ve checked the blade height / alignment, and indeed they were a bit higher at the closer end. Not by much, I’d say less than 0.5mm but they were. I used the blade setting jig that came with the machine - when I got it I couldn’t figure out what to do with it for the life of me, but now I saw someone on YouTube using a similar one to set the blades. Basically it has two legs you place on the drum, and in between is an arc machined to correct height of the blades.

The result is a definite improvement in the operation, I’ve jointed a few boards and there is less tearout and vibration.

It’s not completely solved, and it seems 14cm pine board is still too much for it. Funnily, 9cm Vic ash seems to be much less of an issue.

I haven’t tried setting the tables yet, I’ll give that a go over the weekend.

I’m not sure if that’s related, but finished boards often have a bow along the length, and “humps” of about 1-2mm along the width after jointing, I think a result of the board sometimes “skipping” a bit as I’m pushing it through. I try to go as slowly and firmly as possible but it still sometimes jumps forward a little. This causes problems with paneling.

The whole thing is fairly new but the blades may need sharpening anyway - they’re definitely not razor sharp and I can glide my finger along (yeah I’ve stupidly tried).

Regarding the spiral head suggestion, hafco doesn’t make them but I did get a quote from wood wizardry and I’m considering giving it a go, seeing how much easier time I’m having with the thicknesser. It’s not cheap but still much less than what I would give for a new machine. Any other thoughts on that?

Elan, thanks for the offer but I’m all the way to the west in Werribee

Finally, regarding the noise - it doesn’t make any noise when under no load, it has an induction motor and it’s not bad at all. The noise comes from machining, especially with those wide boards where I’m also getting vibration. I’ve set the depth to less than the first notch on the scale, so less than 1/32”. The blade is rotating in the correct direction


Sorry for the novel!


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.5 mm is a lot out for a jointer blade. you might get by with about .005 thou.

I would also be looking at making sure the tables are parallel too.

Originally Posted by igalic

I’m not sure if that’s related, but finished boards often have a bow along the length, and “humps” of about 1-2mm along the width after jointing, I think a result of the board sometimes “skipping” a bit as I’m pushing it through. I try to go as slowly and firmly as possible but it still sometimes jumps forward a little. This causes problems with paneling.

If the boards have a bow along the length they are NOT finished. The job of the jointer is to straighten them. Something about how you describe the problem leads me to think that you are pushing down hard on the boards to make them contact the knives along its whole length from the first pass. The aim of a jointer is to just remove the stock that is too high (or low, depending on how you look at it) over a number of passes in order to eventually achieve a flat surface. You need very little downward pressure to achieve this.

I live close by in Hoppers Crossing if you need a hand.

Cheers

Doug

0.5mm is HUGE! That's 20 thou; 1 thou total is considered acceptable, +/-1 (2 total) if you're feeling lazy