Thread: New Workshop Fitout - Input Appreciated

Originally Posted by Putty

- forget about trying to wrangle a 240kg drum sander into one.

It's not that hard to fit these bases to heavy machines. You don't have to lift the machine up and onto the base. The machine can be lifted (just high enough to fit the bases) using levers bit by bit and placed on blocks, then the bases come apart and wrap around the edge of the machine base and the whole thing lowered in the same way.

Regarding the power I will only ever be operating the thicknesser OR drum sander in conjunction with the extractor at any given time - I'll confirm with my sparky but is there anything special I need to be aware of if I am getting a single 15A circuit run to the shop? Is it better to get him to run 20A, even if I end up going with the Carbatec products which are only 15A, just for piece of mind, or do I need two 15A circuits to spread the load?

Seeing as they will be used simultaneously you will need two 15A circuits on their own breaker. Usually sparkies will not fit any other GPOs to these circuits so you will need an additional 10A power circuit on its own breaker for other things; This normal requires a 32A feed line from the house breaker box.

Thanks Bob.

I refuse to believe that nobody out there has had any experience with the above machines... surely someone has something good/bad/ugly to say about them?

I have a friend who has owned a 25" Carbatec drum sander for a few years and he is quite happy with it. At my woodie's club we have a 15" thicknesses that has been converted to helical head. It is also a solid machine that performs very well so I would think that the 20" one would be equally good.

OK we have the Hafco sander at the mens shed.
As supplied it's fine on pine and wood that does not have much resin in it but on wood like sheoak it seems to exude resin from the timber. As other have suggested these machines work much better all round , especially on resiny timber, using a coarser grit better quality paper than what is supplied - something like the SIA cloth backed paper supplied by Sandpaper man - I would factor a couple of rolls of this into the budget.
https://www.thesandpaperman.com.au/1...m-sander-roll/

I have used the carbatec thicknesser. At only 3HP I reckon its underpowered for more than 400mm wide hardwood timber but they are all like that. Adding a helical head would improve its ability to make deeper cuts.

On those DCs the Carbatec filter bags are usually a bit thicker than the Hafco bags. This reduces the chances of developing holes. Otherwise they are pretty much the same machine.

Hi Anthony

I do not have exposure to your products, but I have questions about your choices of equipment.

1. Why a 20" thicknesser? Do you have a jointer? If so, what size?

2. Why a sander? What do you plan to use it for?

I predominantly build furniture. In my own workshop I use machines to machine the timber to size, and then work with hand tools ... so our orientation may be different. I do not use a sander, never have, and so I wonder why you have one? Is it for smoothing veneer off a bandsaw (which is how I might use one)? Or are you doubling up, that is, doing the same work as a thicknesser? Edit: I see you plan to use it for end grain cutting boards. See my comment below.

I usually recommend that the size of a thicknesser matches the width of a jointer, and the resaw capability of a bandsaw. These three machines work together. A 20" wide thicknesser is a waste of money (that may be spent elsewhere) if it is used only to finish panels. I use my 12" thicknesser to prepare boards off my 12" jointer, than were resawn on my bandsaw. If I went looking for a 20" thicknesser, I would expect to own a 20" jointer. Panels/cutting boards may be finished on the sander (I use hand planes for this). I would not advise the thicknesser for endgrain. If you do not have a jointer, and expect to use the thicknesser with a sled, then that is a very inefficient (not to mention very noisy) option with a straight blade. Budget in a helical head - down the line it will save you money and hearing (plus make the neighbours happy).

Regards from Perth

Derek

Hey Derek,

No jointer - I get a clean face on the lumber with a thicknesser or a router sled, then rip it on the table saw, then clean up the edge in the thicknesser. Join, thicknesser/sled, quick sand, rotate 90 degrees, cross cut on table saw, rejoin, sled, drum sand, orbital sand, hand sand.

The reason for wanting a twin-drum sander is to cut out the labour and guess work of the belt sander after flattening the end grain with the sled. The sled is actually really accurate, and quiet as I run a variable speed router with a wide diameter planing bit at low speed. I enjoy sanding but I want to know that the 40/80 or 80/120 part of it is taken care of so I can move straight to the ROS.

The whole thing is about efficiency and production. Business is ramping up and I need to keep up with demand. The more I can make the better.

Regarding the size difference between the thicknesser and the sander - I can't find a 20" drum sander. That plus the ability to start running wider lengths through it for coffee tables, benchtops and table tops is very appealing.

I would personally never try and flatten end grain with a hand planer. I don't have the patience or the money for them. The router sled is quick and easy and produces a good enough finish to go straight into the sander. I don't recommend using the thicknesser for them either .

Cheers Bob. The price of the helical head scares me... One of the things I like about the 20" thicknesser even if I don't use the full width is the additional height it offers. As I don't own a jointer I can rip the lumber up to 200mm wide, flip it on its side and feed it through the thicknesser to clean the edge up.

Really was only planning on the 40/60/80 grit max for the sander, so that should work out well. Thanks for the advice I will factor in the sand paper man.

Originally Posted by Putty

Cheers Bob. The price of the helical head scares me... One of the things I like about the 20" thicknesser even if I don't use the full width is the additional height it offers. As I don't own a jointer I can rip the lumber up to 200mm wide, flip it on its side and feed it through the thicknesser to clean the edge up.

There's no guarantee this will produce a square edge, even if you manage to start square that it will stay square on the way through. A vertical fence of some kind is needed - been there and tried that and its not worth it. That's why we have jointers. Perhaps a combo planer thicknesser might be more useful?

I know my experience with thicknessers is limited to the now deceased Triton, but in the few months I had it I had outstanding success squaring up the edges on timber, especially if a little extra care was taken with the initial rip on the table saw - was I just really lucky or is there a big difference between thicknessers in their ability to do this?

I'll have a hunt around and see what I can find in terms of a good jointer.

Originally Posted by Putty

I know my experience with thicknessers is limited to the now deceased Triton, but in the few months I had it I had outstanding success squaring up the edges on timber, especially if a little extra care was taken with the initial rip on the table saw - was I just really lucky or is there a big difference between thicknessers in their ability to do this

Maybe it was because you started square with the rip cut?
I was referring to relatively rough edges which when they came into contact with the blades were kicked sideways.

Originally Posted by BobL

There's no guarantee this will produce a square edge, even if you manage to start square that it will stay square on the way through. A vertical fence of some kind is needed - been there and tried that and its not worth it. That's why we have jointers. Perhaps a combo planer thicknesser might be more useful?

Having both a jointer and a thicknesser, on boards up to about 40 mm thick I prefer to square up my edges on the router table which is fitted with a power feed.

May I suggest a portion of your budget needs to include a better extraction unit, proper ducting and electrical upgrade? probably spend 1/3 of your budget on it? good thing about it is you only have to do it once if you do it right. machines, we buy and sell.

I know we like to spend money on what we can see and use, but suitable extractor, proper ducting and electrical system is critical to a functional workshop. The workshop will not work if you are not in it - extraction, and electrical can be a fire hazard or possibly not enough juice to run the machines.

my planer is only 410mm, a 16 inch machine, its 3 hp singlephase and I had issues when planning very wide board. I dont think a 20 inch machine will work greatly on a 3hp single phase motor, perhaps a smaller, better quality machine with helical head? say the likes of Hammer/Minimax?

As for drum sander, I am not sure about you but if you need a drum sander you probably need a wide belt sander not a drum sander - when you have that capacity to sand stuff you tends to glue up stuff and needs sanding, drum sander will work, but only light work load and changing the paper can be an ass of a job. if you want a proper sander go for the proper wide belt sander, and when you have a sander, your extraction needs to match the sander. I am not sure if both of the extractor in your original post will do any good when connected to sander, they are good for chip removal but not sand dust.

Regards

What would you recommend I look at instead of a 2300cfm unit? Is it not necessarily a matter purely of cubic air movement but other factors to help the situation? I know not of this wide belt sander... Please enlighten me. Are they available from carbatec/hafco or do I need a speciality abrasives supplier?

Bob I tend to stick to roughly dimensioned lumber to begin with. In instances where I need to cut down something with a live edge I pin it to a plywood/melamite skid and get a rough square up on the table saw.