Thread: Band saw_V_Table saw_Advice sought

I wasn’t following this thread but when I read Doug’s post, it all summed up. I can see his point and I agree with it. Though others’ suggestions are considerably good, only Doug has seen ISuckAtWoodwork’s real problem here. ISuckAtWoodwork is a first line beginner in this aspect and would surely have a hard time cutting the timber. This isn’t like cutting a 2x2 lumber using a hand saw. This is about cutting big loads using complex tools.

If the OP really sucks at ww that badly then no method is appropriate and he should get someone else to cut the wood for him.

I was having a look for Martrix's post on using an electric chainsaw for milling sleepers and came across this which suggests the big stihl electric is not the way to go.
https://www.woodworkforums.com/f132/quiet-milling-92701/

Martrix's post is here.
https://www.woodworkforums.com/f132/m...aw-mill-43925/
He uses a 14" McCUlloch and he was getting great results.
Also shown are pictures of his setups etc.

Sometimes free stuff ends up costing you more than it's worth. As I said, I'd probably use it as is for posts to get the rustic look and I would buy some dimensional pine for rafters etc. That is going to be much easier to work with than old bridge timbers or whatever when it comes to fixing.

I simply don't think it's worth the cost or effort to buy a machine, learn how to use it, and perform one of the more risky operations on it (if we're talking tablesaws with the guards removed) to save a few bucks in timber.

On the other hand, if you want to buy a tablesaw for general woodworking, go for it. Just don't make ripping a 220mm wide hardwood beam your first job on it.

Originally Posted by doug3030

ok I will say it again for the last time then I am not going to come back to his thread again unless the OP specifically asks me a question.

We are talking about how it is best for a complete beginner to cut down some very substantial pieces of timber. We arent talking about what machine will do it best with an experienced operator who can set up the machine and operate it professionally. we are talking about someone who confesses to virtually no previous experience with anything like what he is intending to do.

You wont cut this with a 14inch bandsaw, unless you put a riser block in and that opens a whole other can of worms I wont even get started on, and even if you do the motor wont be powerful enough and it wont run a sufficiently wide blade to do the job properly. the job would need a minimum of a 17inch bandsaw and the saw would have to be set up and tuned to a very high standard.

I fear that if ISuckAtWoodwork was to take the advice of the those suggesting that it be done with a bandsaw, he would become frustrated with trying to set it uop because he wants to get stuck straight into this project and not spend some time learning and setting up the tool before taking on the big job. he would then withdraw from the forum for a few months then rejoin as IReallySuckAtWoodwork and try to sell his bandsaw in the marketplace. the job would never be completed and he would feel very bad about his failure when the only thing he did wrong was listen to people who looked at the job from their point of view and not his.

Thats it, I am finished with this discussion.

Doug

PS. to ISuckAtWoodwork - good luck with you project , mate. I hope you understand where I am coming from here. I think that it is great that you want to give it a go, but your first step is a big one and I at least am trying to make it as manageable as possible for a beginner.

Seems like most of the people here have forgotten what it is like to be a raw beginner.
It is a fair bet that the OP is not coming back because he is being overwhelmed by all these technical responses that he probably does not understand a word of

Isuckatwoodwork
If you don't feel too intimidated, the guys here are really nice and will help you work out how to tackle the job.
Cheers
Wolffie

Seems like most of the people here have forgotten what it is like to be a raw beginner

I wouldn't say that. Everyone has their opinion and that's what he asked for.

I consider the method suggested by Doug to be an advanced technique - removing the blade guard from the tablesaw and making multiple passes like that, with a large piece of hardwood that's likely to be very heavy, needing good infeed and outfeed support, fingerboards and possibly a high fence extension. It will need to be squared up first somehow if it's not already - jointer perhaps? I don't think it is especially suited to a beginner. Neither is using a chainsaw mill or a bandsaw to do the job.

My advice, taking into consideration the OP being a beginner, is to find another way that doesn't involve cutting the stuff up. Or get someone to do it for him. If we were talking smaller section sizes, I would vote for the tablesaw no question.

I don't think it's being overly technical or overlooking anyone's skill level to discuss the relative merits of a technique. You can't just gloss over the risks and give a simple answer, because there isn't one. It's not a straightforward job.

At the end of the day, we're all just anonymous people on a forum and the OP has to make up his own mind. How's he going to do that without the technical details? If he just wants someone to tell him what to do, he'll need to toss a coin. Can't see any other way around it.

Originally Posted by silentC

My advice, taking into consideration the OP being a beginner, is to find another way that doesn't involve cutting the stuff up. Or get someone to do it for him. If we were talking smaller section sizes, I would vote for the tablesaw no question.

I'm with Doug3030, Ian, and SilentC. The best advice is not to try to cut he timber t all.

As a young man I helped to cut railway sleepers from freshly felled trees. We used a 1 m diameter circular swing saw powered by a Volkswagen motor! And that was GREEN timber!

ISuckAtWoodwork is talking about ripping boards from similar sized seasoned hardwood that's been lying around in the weather for years... I doubt you can get a nail into the things let alone a saw blade. Even if you could it would be a really tough job and SOOO dangerous with either a table saw or a band saw that it might literally cost him and arm and a leg.

ISuckAtWoodwork: Buy a table saw or a bandsaw... both have their pro and heir cons, but don't try to cut those bridge timbers, Maybe you can use them as they are as feature posts, a retaining or dividing wall - or for a bar top to go with that 3 door fridge!

Just as an aside.

I have used chainsaws (CS), band and hand held and table circulars for more than 35 years. In terms of safety a small CS in a CS mill is probably the safest of all those machines for cutting big timber. It will easily cut those timbers but that is all it will do, and then the thing sits in the shed collecting dust. Of all those machines I reckon the TS is potentially the most dangerous. I have more respect for my TS than my 120+cc CS running the 1.5m bar in my big CS mill. Because timber that size has to be held firmly while cutting using a CS mill, once the bar is buried in the wood there is very little that can go wrong. Even the much talked about chain break is usually a non event ( have broken half a dozen) it just drops off the bar and sits in the kerf

3 Years ago I did a risk assessment of my CS milling and came up with a list of risks in rough order of priority. Risk from cutting happens when using the chainsaw by itself to prep logs (#6). The chances of being injured by the moving chain while the CS is in the mill is well down the list.

1) Driving to and from the milling site. Funny how we forget about this

2) The Sun

3) Moving the logs, rolling logs around and setting them up on gluts using machinery.

4) Lifting logs to create a milling slope.

5) Moving large pieces of milled Timber

6) Preping the logs with a CS

7) Starting and ending the cuts.

8) Milling ergonomics.

9) Exhaust fumes:

10) Noise

11) Vibration

12) Using fuel

13) Lifting the log rails

Then come things like cutting your hands while filing, bug bites, splinters, chain breaking, kick back, shark attack and UFO deportation.

For dry and dusty wood, dust probably comes in around number 7) or 8)

Remember this is my assessment your assessment may be different.

In terms of safety a small CS in a CS mill is probably the safest of all those machines for cutting big timber. Of all those machines I reckon the TS is potentially the most dangerous.

Agree with this 100%. I would be infinitely more comfortable doing a job like this with the CS mill than I would with the table saw.

I was thinking about it last night. Just say OP followed the advice and tried doing it with a table saw. The first thing he'd have to do is to remove the guard. Depending on the saw, he may also need to remove the splitter. Then he is going to cut 100mm into one edge, end for end the board and do the same on the other edge. As the cut completes, he will be left with two large lumps of timber either side of a full extended blade spinning at several thousand RPM. What's he going to do then? That's where it could go pear-shaped if something falls over, or he slips or god knows what. If you haven't thought it through, there's no turning back.

Makes me shudder just thinking about it....

Originally Posted by silentC

. . . . Then he is going to cut 100mm into one edge, end for end the board and do the same on the other edge. . . .

He doesn't have to make 2 x 100 mm cuts, but as others have already said, he can make multiple 30 mm cuts. . . .
but IMHO this is just asking for trouble.
He would have to do it at least 7 times to make a 200 mm cut. Just the thought of lifting, flipping and pushing such a large piece of wood sends my back into a spasm. This is why a BS that splits it in one pass is quicker and safer. I have done this sort of thing with BS and TS many times and I know how hard it is.

The CSM of course is the least fatiguing, but the most useless after it has done it's job.

Whether he does it in several passes or just one, the last cut is obviously going to need the blade to be fully extended.

Originally Posted by Wolffie

Seems like most of the people here have forgotten what it is like to be a raw beginner.
It is a fair bet that the OP is not coming back because he is being overwhelmed by all these technical responses that he probably does not understand a word of

Isuckatwoodwork
If you don't feel too intimidated, the guys here are really nice and will help you work out how to tackle the job.
Cheers
Wolffie

I bow to the wisdom of KNOWLEDGE and EXPERIENCE!!!

Thanks for confirming what i discovered by reading previous threads, hence my posing this question with the "belief" you outlined above Wolffie.

And reading the replies i got exactly what i asked for...to be hit right between the eyes with reality and options to tackle the "mission".

Now i have found my tools...and am ready to start.











Thanks for all the replies...will respond in short time.

Gents i have found the perfect solution...

Wadkin Ripsaw restored by Indigo Furniture - YouTube





Ok some blanks to fill in....

You aren't going to get any greener when it come to lack of experience with the tools(BS,TS) discussed...but not a total novice when it comes to machinery and i do have a "greenhorn" respect for the type of machinery discussed and the type of damage/death they can cause.

Equipment at hand...

Air Compressor
pneumatic polishers, sanders, grinders
electric polishers, sanders, grinders, drills
Drill press
Dust extractor 2hp
Safety goggles
Respiratory mask,
Headphones attached to walkman
cable internet
An understanding of Physics

In pipeline
Thicknesser/jointer



https://www.woodworkforums.com/f221/t...r-sale-156501/

Said exactly the same thing as groggy when i saw this listing, except i used another word rather than "darn".

Band saw over table saw.

Mission:





To build this, but without the water feature, decking or cladding.

Wood fired pizza oven one end, workbench,sink & bar( looking for hiccup icon) the other end, designer furniture by iSuck smack bang in the middle.

Attack:

Gerni clean,
metal detector.

Plan A

Band saw/Table saw timber to just larger than required sizes.
Joint/thickness dress to exact sizes.
Erect
Oil or seal ( undecided )

Since initial post i have .....

almost picked this up for under $500.00 ( build July 2011)



I hate snipers.

I also missed out on a 5 year old BS with a 235mm depth of cut with a 2hp 240v motor because of my own stupidity in forgetting that you have to "confirm" your bid.


Plan B

Grinder or sander( which i use on the boat to rejuvenate the gelcoat ) in combination with guides on both sides of facing surface to remove approx 7mm of stock
Joint/thickness dress to exact sizes.
Erect
Oil or seal ( undecided )

Plan C

Router stock like this... https://www.woodworkforums.com/f44/le...ing-jig-36546/
Joint/thickness dress to exact sizes.
Erect
Oil or seal ( undecided )

Plan D

With 7mm depth guides on each side of face, ATTACK with a Holey Galahad
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiS_NKorXYk"]Sculpting a Maloof Chair Seat - by Scott Morrison woodworker - YouTube[/ame]
Joint/thickness dress to exact sizes.
Erect
Oil or seal ( undecided )

Plans B,C,D means the heavy timber will only have to be flipped as opposed to lugged around in Plan A.

Time factor: will ask Julia to give me some time off.

Ability to build jigs for Plans A, C & D - you betcha

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEFUT2dSoiw"]Resawing Elm.MP4 - YouTube[/ame]

Stupidity to jump straight into trying to cut old, thick heavy wood.

Gentlemen thanks for some great advice and guidance it is much appreciated, so feel free to share more of your expertise because as you ca see my naivety abounds, but my enthusiasm knows no bounds.