Thread: Be cautious buying supposedly demo machines marked down

Originally Posted by 419

After allowing for the cost of a couple of inserts...

So it was sold without a warranty? I thought ex-demo goods sold through a retailer carried the normal warranty? I haven't researched it though, and it might depend on your State.

It’s possible the dealer may not have known of the damage when it was returned.

If I'm reading the original post correctly, it was sold as an ex-demo machine, not a return.

Under Australian Consumer Law you have specific rights, particularly wrt the representations made by a retailer. Repair, replace, refund, cancel | ACCC

If it was a returned machine and not a demo as represented you may have recourse to a full refund.

As a demo machine the retailer should have replaced the inserts for you for free as the machine must be in a fully operational state at the time of sale! look up "consumer guarantees."

If the machine was sold "as is" then it most likely was not a demo machine.

Of course you only have these rights if you stand up and fight for them! Talk to the retailer, explain your concerns, seek a mutually agreeable remedy, then go to your "Office of Fair Trading" if you can't agree.

edit - IF it is the retailer I suspect - there were a number of issues with their spiral head thicknessers! I have one, and I'm not happy with how they dealt with my new machine when it failed without even a stick of timber in it! They have a very convenient interpretation of their responsibilities under ACL.

Originally Posted by jack620

So it was sold without a warranty? I thought ex-demo goods sold through a retailer carried the normal warranty? I haven't researched it though, and it might depend on your State.

It was sold with an express six month warranty as a demo machine. I bought it more than six months ago.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by jack620

If I'm reading the original post correctly, it was sold as an ex-demo machine, not a return.

Correct.

Originally Posted by ErrolFlynn

It’s possible the dealer may not have known of the damage when it was returned.

Possibly, but if it was a return rather than a demo I'd expect the dealer to want convincing evidence of a defect before refunding or replacing. I'm just hoping that there isn't some other defect that's going to appear with more use. If it was returned on the basis of the missing insert the dealer could have replaced that for a few dollars, while the damaged insert wasn't a fault with the machine but because something like timber with a nail in it was put through the machine.

Originally Posted by Mobyturns

Under Australian Consumer Law you have specific rights, particularly wrt the representations made by a retailer. Repair, replace, refund, cancel | ACCC

If it was a returned machine and not a demo as represented you may have recourse to a full refund.

The problem is that I have no hard evidence that it was a returned machine rather than a demo, just the common sense inference that dealers don't put timber with metal in it through a machine in their own shop.

Originally Posted by Mobyturns

If the machine was sold "as is" then it most likely was not a demo machine.

It was sold 'as is'.

Originally Posted by Mobyturns

Of course you only have these rights if you stand up and fight for them! Talk to the retailer, explain your concerns, seek a mutually agreeable remedy, then go to your "Office of Fair Trading" if you can't agree.

edit - IF it is the retailer I suspect - there were a number of issues with their spiral head thicknessers! I have one, and I'm not happy with how they dealt with my new machine when it failed without even a stick of timber in it! They have a very convenient interpretation of their responsibilities under ACL.

I used to do this for a living. I can't be bothered. It'll take a couple of years to reach VCAT (consumer complaints tribunal in Victoria) and I could be dead by then.

If the machine works okay for the next couple of years I'll still be ahead financially. And if I'm dead I don't care.

Which retailer? blue or brown?

Originally Posted by EagerBeaver71

Which retailer? blue or brown?

My lips are sealed. But they're not primarily a woodworking retailer.

Edit: Although my following comment in response to Mobyturns' post applies equally to some primarily woodworking retailers.

Originally Posted by Mobyturns

edit - IF it is the retailer I suspect - there were a number of issues with their spiral head thicknessers!

The one I bought was advertised as a spiral head thicknesser, which seems to be standard misleading, deceptive and or just plain (and implausible) ignorant conduct by most sellers of segmented head thicknessers that don't have a hint of a spiral or helix on their cutter heads. Then again, the staff member who discussed the machine with me before I bought it on my own assessment clearly had no idea that it wasn't a true spiral head cutter and couldn't get his head around the notion of cutters on a spiral.

I checked the head before I bought it and knew it was just a straight line segmented head cutter, but it was still about 25% below the going price everywhere for these regularly misrepresented 'spiral head' thicknessers so it still looked like a fair deal.

In fairness to the seller, it's not exclusively their machine that's the problem. It's the generic machine that is sold by many retailers under various house name brands and with slight variations. On my limited experience with a standard bladed version of the same machine, sold by another major tools outlet under its house brand,which seized a bearing on a feed roller which then destroyed a drive gear in the drive system, and from what I've seen of comments by others about the same generic machines, it seems to be one of those lucky dip budget / entry level items where you can get a lemon or a durable and reliable machine.

What's more concerning is that some specialist woodworking retailers sell what appear to be much the same budget / entry level thicknessers with true spiral or helix heads for a much higher price, but apart from the cutter head it seems to be much the same machine and not worth the massive mark up as it's still not the high quality machine you could reasonably expect to go with a top line spiral cutter.

Again in fairness to the seller, and to the manufacturer(s) of the various versions of these machines, I have to say that after repairing one damaged insert and replacing the missing insert my misrepresented "not spiral head thicknesser" does a perfectly adequate job to the standard I expected and wanted, including on aged red gum which is the hardest timber I'm likely to put through it. How long it lasts remains to be seen.

Originally Posted by 419

The one I bought was advertised as a spiral head thicknesser, which seems to be standard misleading, deceptive and or just plain (and implausible) ignorant conduct by most sellers of segmented head thicknessers that don't have a hint of a spiral or helix on their cutter heads. Then again, the staff member who discussed the machine with me before I bought it on my own assessment clearly had no idea that it wasn't a true spiral head cutter and couldn't get his head around the notion of cutters on a spiral.

I checked the head before I bought it and knew it was just a straight line segmented head cutter, but it was still about 25% below the going price everywhere for these regularly misrepresented 'spiral head' thicknessers so it still looked like a fair deal.

In fairness to the seller, it's not exclusively their machine that's the problem. It's the generic machine that is sold by many retailers under various house name brands and with slight variations. On my limited experience with a standard bladed version of the same machine, sold by another major tools outlet under its house brand,which seized a bearing on a feed roller which then destroyed a drive gear in the drive system, and from what I've seen of comments by others about the same generic machines, it seems to be one of those lucky dip budget / entry level items where you can get a lemon or a durable and reliable machine.

What's more concerning is that some specialist woodworking retailers sell what appear to be much the same budget / entry level thicknessers with true spiral or helix heads for a much higher price, but apart from the cutter head it seems to be much the same machine and not worth the massive mark up as it's still not the high quality machine you could reasonably expect to go with a top line spiral cutter.

Again in fairness to the seller, and to the manufacturer(s) of the various versions of these machines, I have to say that after repairing one damaged insert and replacing the missing insert my misrepresented "not spiral head thicknesser" does a perfectly adequate job to the standard I expected and wanted, including on aged red gum which is the hardest timber I'm likely to put through it. How long it lasts remains to be seen.

Definitely a pretty fair assessment of the state of play. The drive train to the drive rollers seems to be an "Archilies heel" of the lunchbox style thicknessers. There is a true spiral cutter head in the Sherwood. It goes a great job, however there are a number of "features" that I dislike.

Pardon my ignorance, but wouldn't a demo be covered under a 1 year warranty, regardless?

Originally Posted by Mobyturns

Definitely a pretty fair assessment of the state of play. The drive train to the drive rollers seems to be an "Archilies heel" of the lunchbox style thicknessers. There is a true spiral cutter head in the Sherwood. It goes a great job, however there are a number of "features" that I dislike.

Hi Moby, I think we have the same thicknesser, I'd be interested to know what features you don't like?.

Regards,

Sam

Originally Posted by EagerBeaver71

Hi Moby, I think we have the same thicknesser, I'd be interested to know what features you don't like?.

Regards,

Sam

Where to start -

1. the anti-kickback pawls have a habit of preventing wood passing through, they don't seem to return to an in-feed state, despite there not haveing been a kickback.
2. the restriction on depth of cut either side of centre
3. the depth of cut indicator does similar to 1. above
4. the "dial in" thickness setting is not accurate, more like erratic.
5. the dust chute attachment is flimsy
6. uses a non-industry standard carbide insert

However it does produce excellent results off the cutters