Thread: drill press decisions..

Thanks Mal. Yes I had a look at the presses Gary has but I get hit with a big transport fee and that kills "the want to buy" feeling very fast.

I noticed on your spread sheet you hit the same problems I have and that is getting a good set of specs from the various sellers. They all use different measurement in important ares, eg max spindle to table distance in one case while another will use max chuck to table distance. Many leave out other important items as column diameter and speed range or the set speeds available.

I might have a re look at what the local people have but it's a bit limited, KK, Peerless and Hitachi but its not the full range for some odd reason.

I never cease to be amazed at some of the delivery costs quoted by some businesses.

Some of the dealers on Ebay must either have a better arrangement with their transport company or they don't make their profit by overcharging on freight.

Take this pedestal drill pres for example

PEDESTAL DRILL PRESS 3/4HP VARI-SPEED TQ7064 NEW - eBay Drills, Power Tools, Tools, Home. (end time 08-Jul-10 22:28:13 AEST)

delivery to anywhere in Oz is $50, don't know how they do it.

BTW, the specs on that drill press don't seem too bad either, I assume the mechanical variable speed is some sort of Reeves pulley setup, similar to the Jet.

Hi Cultana,

The CT D4119 drill model is available under several brand names and the design is made in two different sizes, this one is the smaller of the two, the GPW 25" is an example of the larger. I had a "Hercus" branded one at work, it was the most miserable piece of equipment I've ever turned my nose up at. The quill was sloppy, the table dipped at the front so it was never square and worse of all there was no rigidity in the whole set up. When you retensioned the motor drive belt after changeing speed the motor mounting plate flexed that much that the pulley ended up at an angle. I once tried to mount a "Safe-T Planer" in it; as soon as it hit the wood the whole thing shook around and chewed rather than cut. There was no way to make the machine any more rigid except by welding the damn thing into one lump.

I've seen the same drills in various tool shops and from an (admittedly cursory) examination they all seem to exhibit at least one of the faults of the Hercus that drove me mad. I would recommend that if you get the opportunity to examine of one these drills give it a really good shake around and see if any of the major elements move, and check to see that the table can be made square with the spindle. Grab hold of the spindle at full extension and see how much play is in it. They may look quite beefy but I was so disappointed with the engineering (or rather the lack therof) that went into them.

In my shed I've got a 20-odd year old Waldown pillar drill with variable speed. This machine is everything the Hercus wasn't but looks so much more lightweight. It is however as rigid as a very rigid thing that's standing rigidly to attention whilst being awarded the prestigious annual "Rigidity" trophy for the third year running. It copes quite happily with a Timbecon mortise chisel kit and I've even used it for light milling of aluminium. The only drawback it has is it's limited throat; it's only around 8" but I haven't needed anything more so far. This is a machine I expect will be still in use for another 20 or so years.

I can't comment on the radial dril that Carba Tec and Timbecon sell; I have seen them in their stores but didn't really pay that much attention to them. I reckon though I'd rather buy one of those unseen than the GPW 25 or CT 4119 clones.

Hi Cultana,

I purchased the bench version of the H&F model you listed (SBD-20B) a few years ago when it was on sale. With hindsight I wish I had spent a few more $'s to get a better quality more versatile machine.

The unit has done some good work during the time I've had it and it certainly has plenty of power; but it leaves me wanting when I need to do really accurate work.

The price at the time was great but you know the old saying - "Quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten"

Cheers,
Geoff

Originally Posted by Chief Tiff

I can't comment on the radial dril that Carba Tec and Timbecon sell; I have seen them in their stores but didn't really pay that much attention to them. I reckon though I'd rather buy one of those unseen than the GPW 25 or CT 4119 clones.

I gather you would also put the CT 4119F in that clone bracket, ie to be avoided?

As for the Timbecon What who is the Sherwood brand name, is it their's or something else?
I also had a bit of a negative reaction to Timbecon after reading one thread back a while. Trivial problem but the thread started had a big hassle over it.
Those sort of things stick in teh mind when looking at gear especially when the supplier is way out of town.

The other thing that kept me away from this one was freight costs, WA to SA. I suppose I suffering freight cost syndrome. One quote I had for one of these drills from Adelaide to home, all of 400Km, was $140 Yet it was whispered it would cost between $50 - $60 to get one moved Melbourne to Adelaide.

Big Shed:
Yes interesting specs but the low speed is rather high and the high speed is rather low. But $50 from WA to Australia!!! Ok how ?

Reminds me backloading, there are some tpt coys in town I wonder if they have cheap back load room Not the standard local freight .. Thought in progress!!

I have look at specs for various presses and I am now getting a tad confused with some of the interchangeable terminology.

So I hope I am right with this :
Throat distance = Distance from column to drill centre.

But what is Swing? It seems to be double throat/distance from column to drill centre so what use is it in comparing drill presses?

Originally Posted by Chief Tiff

Hi Cultana,

The CT D4119 drill model is available under several brand names and the design is made in two different sizes, this one is the smaller of the two, the GPW 25" is an example of the larger. I had a "Hercus" branded one at work, it was the most miserable piece of equipment I've ever turned my nose up at. The quill was sloppy, the table dipped at the front so it was never square and worse of all there was no rigidity in the whole set up. When you retensioned the motor drive belt after changeing speed the motor mounting plate flexed that much that the pulley ended up at an angle. I once tried to mount a "Safe-T Planer" in it; as soon as it hit the wood the whole thing shook around and chewed rather than cut. There was no way to make the machine any more rigid except by welding the damn thing into one lump.

I've seen the same drills in various tool shops and from an (admittedly cursory) examination they all seem to exhibit at least one of the faults of the Hercus that drove me mad. I would recommend that if you get the opportunity to examine of one these drills give it a really good shake around and see if any of the major elements move, and check to see that the table can be made square with the spindle. Grab hold of the spindle at full extension and see how much play is in it. They may look quite beefy but I was so disappointed with the engineering (or rather the lack therof) that went into them.

In my shed I've got a 20-odd year old Waldown pillar drill with variable speed. This machine is everything the Hercus wasn't but looks so much more lightweight. It is however as rigid as a very rigid thing that's standing rigidly to attention whilst being awarded the prestigious annual "Rigidity" trophy for the third year running. It copes quite happily with a Timbecon mortise chisel kit and I've even used it for light milling of aluminium. The only drawback it has is it's limited throat; it's only around 8" but I haven't needed anything more so far. This is a machine I expect will be still in use for another 20 or so years.

I can't comment on the radial dril that Carba Tec and Timbecon sell; I have seen them in their stores but didn't really pay that much attention to them. I reckon though I'd rather buy one of those unseen than the GPW 25 or CT 4119 clones.

Hi Tiff, you might want to check your facts.
Our Drill Presses are made in Taiwan, they are a lot more heavy duty, they are not a clone of anything, they are made under our specs to our high quality standards, they are also available in 3 sizes.

Can I make one observation: Don't bother with a drill press mounted mortiser. You will use it exactly once!

In fact if anyone wants one, they can have mine for free but it is strictly pick up only.

Originally Posted by GPW

Hi Tiff, you might want to check your facts.
Our Drill Presses are made in Taiwan, they are a lot more heavy duty, they are not a clone of anything, they are made under our specs to our high quality standards, they are also available in 3 sizes.

Unless you actually totally designed the machine from scratch about 15-20 years ago then the GPW 25 is a clone/badge engineered version of a Hercus machine manufactured in the 1990's. The Hercus may also not have been the original item as they would have had a fairly low production rate so I would expect the original to have come from Asia anyway. Again, about 20 years ago.

At the Perth WWW show last year I came across a stand with another exact same machine, but once again under a different (and instantly forgettable) name. I have also seen this machine under other names in photographs. Your machine is a clone, in the same sense that the Carbatec, Timbecon and Axminster mini lathes are all clones. The Jet mini lathe is also identical and twice the price of the others, deservedly so as it is manufactured to measurably higher standards. It may be that Jet actually designed it in the first place and the others are just copies; I don't know. I do know that if you took your 25, the Hercus and two or three of the other clones and sprayed them all the same colour, they would be indistinguishable from each other on visual appearance.

I don't doubt that your version of this machine is manufactured to relatively high standard and tolerances, but I ask you to check the following details:

Is the column attached to the drill head and base using only 3/8"UNC or M10 grub screws that screw through into the column? Can you physically move the drill head with a firm shove?
Is the table truly square to the spindle, or does it dip down at the front by about 1/2mm?
When you tension the drive belts is it possible to deflect the layshaft and/or motor pulleys from vertical using fairly low force on the tensioning lever, especially at the lower drill speed settings?
Can you grab hold of the chuck with one hand and the table with the other, and using a push/pull action, detect play in the assembly?
If you try to drill steel plate with a 1/2" drill, does it drill true from start to finish or does the whole machine shudder and shake around untill the drill flukes are firmly buried within the material?

If the answer to the above questions is "no", then congratulations, your machine is made to higher tolerances and specifications than the other clones. These were the main points that I detested about the Hercus and are still apparent on the other copies, as such I would never buy or recommend one of these machines unless it could be demonstrated that these flaws had been removed.

Have you added a method of locking the spindle in position?
Have you added a decent spindle stop, or is it still miserable little clamping screw on the handwheel collar that can only be set using trial and error?
Have you fitted an NVR switch and wired in a safety interlock so the machine can't be started with the belt cover open?
Is there a telescopic chuck guard fitted?

If you have answered "yes" to the above then again congratulations; you have improved the useability and safety of the original machine as well. I can't make them out in the photograph though.

I won't add anything further to this subject as I feel we have hijacked this thread enough (sorry Cultana), but feel free to contact me further.

Back to Cultana's questions; I have no idea why swing is quoted; it seems to have limited value. I'm more interested in throat, table size, distance from spindle to table/base, spindle plunge depth and MT size.

Sherwood is Timbecon's own badge engineered/cloned range of machines When I lived in WA I visited their shop a couple of times a year and I would say that if it is a choice between Carbatec and Sherwood branded equipment there is very little to choose over them bar the price. Timbecon were also very good at having clearance sales at the end of the interstate WWW shows as they couldn't face repacking the truck prior to the l-o-n-g drive back to WA!

As far as most drill presses go they are all in most respects a clone of something. The significant aspect is what level of quality specifications the Australian seller adds to that clone. This can easily generate into a standard piddling contest with little advancement to any discussion.


What is possibly more important is honesty and help in a seller with respect to the product they sell. Also the other point being the specification they provide with respect to clarity so a sensible decision can be made by the buyer, me.

Now the specifications are one of the biggest gripes I have with a several sellers of drills. Many of these specs are poorly worded and can lead to misinterpretation. As mentioned the use of swing. Some use it as per its formal definition that is 2 x throat distance; others use it as if it was throat distance. Many do not even bother to note if the spindle has a #2 or #3 Morse Taper or not and some do not provide the max spindle, (chuck) to table/spindle, (chuck) to base heights. The lack of consistency and terminology usage is appalling.

Now I, and possibly like many, are not in a position to pop into the store to have a hands on feel of the piece of gear. That is a huge drawback so I am left with trying to extract as much real information from the sales person via phone conversation. This is where I will very fast loose interest in a specific product if I am lectured to and not given reasonable information on what I need to make that decision.
So far I have walked away, so to speak, from 2 businesses due to this. Their drills may be very good but I have been hissed off by negative attitude, thus lost sale.

Now the cost of a drill to me, on average, is not the shop floor price but the floor price plus about 30+%, (ie transport). The reality is; is that drill worth a total price of (floor price + 30+%)? This is what some sellers fail to understand.
So it is not a simple case of well it has faults so take it back. There are a few threads about here on returning or dealing with product faults that leave me sceptical on how these may be dealt with.

What I am interested in is:

• Chuck capacity
• Spindle taper
• Spindle travel
• Column to drill centre
• Column diam
• Max distance chuck to table
• Distance chuck to base
• Table size & shape
• Table rise and fall system
• No of peed steps
• Speed range
• Motor (Watts/Hp)
• Slack in the spindle at 3/4 extension.

The last one some what critical and the one I find hard to get any real answers on even in general terms. This can be critical with radial arm drills, but get an answer, not easy if at all.



Ok I am still looking. I was looking at the radial arm drills but seems these have, well been assisted off the list.

There are a couple of places here in Bundy that sell pedestal and bench drills, if you like I can visit these and obtain the specific info you want as applies to their stock. By "slack in the spindle" I take it you are referring to radial play?

Originally Posted by Chief Tiff

There are a couple of places here in Bundy that sell pedestal and bench drills, if you like I can visit these and obtain the specific info you want as applies to their stock. By "slack in the spindle" I take it you are referring to radial play?

Chief, thanks for the offer. catch PM.
Yes I am referring to radial play as it can be a real bug.