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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by FenceFurniture View Post
    Cheers Bob. Not sure if you have much access to Cypress Pine in the west (just like I don't know the characteristics of Wandoo) but Cypress will split if you look at it sternly. Quite a tricky timber to nail a lot of the time, and predrilling is well worthwhile, especially within a couple of inches of the ends.
    These I didn't try to get out and just just docked them off using a cut off saw.

    And so it is with breakout, as I'm just learning (only ever put the nails in before). I'm sure that the biggest problem is the nails being rusted from the glue (unless Cypress is given to rusting nails) - they are virtually glued in with rust and take a lot of timber with them.
    My boards were painted/glued into the wood with multiple coats of two pack but the nails still punched through easier than trying to force them out the other way. Yes I did split some boards - maybe one in 10?

    Using a punch on this stuff is a whole barrel of fun - it's really springy, and there are several wasted blows. The boards really need to be clamped down for a punch to be effective and deliver it's energy properly - and that's just not on (clamping, reclamping for every bloody nail - yeesh!)
    My lumpy weighed 2kg. I nailed two lengths of of 4 x 2 together with a 2" in between them and clamped these across an open wheelie bin and used another wheelie bin for support, lined the nails up in the gap, one blow and the nails went into the bin. It took a while to learn how to not punch too hard and jam the punch in the hole.
    Bigger hammer makes a lot of difference.

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  3. #17
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    Ah, I think I'm getting your picture now Bob - you welded the handle on to keep fingers out of harm's way, yes?
    Regards, FenceFurniture

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  4. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by FenceFurniture View Post
    Ah, I think I'm getting your picture now Bob - you welded the handle on to keep fingers out of harm's way, yes?
    Yep, and if I were to do it again I would weld the handle a lot lower on the punch to stop it penetrating too far into the hole left by the nail..

  5. #19
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    Right. About 10-15mm clearance I suppose. I guess the punch could be ground down closer to cylindrical rather than tapered, but that will reduce it's heft of course.
    Regards, FenceFurniture

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  6. #20
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    Hi Brett

    thinking a little outside the box ...

    do you really need to remove the nails?
    the glue and stuff from the glued down carpet will make one hell of a mess of your jointer blades

    perhaps you could get one of those blades advertised as suitable for cutting timber and nails and clean the boards by running them through your table saw to shave a few mm off each face --
    bury the blade's width (and no more) in a sacrificial fence,
    remove the fence and plane the leading edge flush with the saw cut so you effectively have a jointer fence
    remount the fence and use the saw to joint the board faces

    for cladding the shed or the front fence, does it matter if most of the nails remain in the wood?
    regards from Alberta, Canada

    ian

  7. #21
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    Hi Ian

    I do like a bit of out of the box thinking. However there are a few prohibitive things there. The Flai Mustang blade (the one you refer to) is a very good blade but leaves a very rough finish, and also doesn't come with a 30mm arbor which i need. My table saw only does a 75mm deep cut too, and the boards are between 100mm and 125mm wide. They could be flipped to do two 60mm cuts if the blade fitted my saw.

    You are right though - strictly speaking the nails don't have to come out for most applications - that's really only necessary for jointing.

    From what I saw on Thursday (raining) the glue goes soft when wet and can be paint scrapered off, which is what I would do. Most of the "pallets" have a layer of grey foam plastic over the glue, but this is very easy (and dusty) to scrape off.

    Will take a pic of the stack shortly which will show the scale of the operation.
    Regards, FenceFurniture

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  8. #22
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    Maybe we need a group scrape pull nail build thing.
    For one off our comrades in arms(boards)

  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simplicity View Post
    Maybe we need a group scrape pull nail build thing.
    For one off our comrades in arms(boards)
    A group thing would be very efficient especially if a 2kg lump and punch are involved because one runs out of puff wielding something like that for too long. The time consumer is moving the boards so if a couple of guys were feeding boards to two guys with punches and lumpies it would go fairly quickly.

    BTW an alternative to welding a handle to a punch would be to hold the punch with multigrips.

  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    BTW an alternative to welding a handle to a punch would be to hold the punch with multigrips.
    Perzackly what I was thinking (seeing how I don't weld).
    Regards, FenceFurniture

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  11. #25
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    This is the building that is being gutted. Very fortunately they are leaving the upstairs floor in place.





    The pile didn't look too big this morning:





    but then you have to add about half of this 20' skip bin (picture it as fiddle sticks all of the top of the previous pic):




    and then add the 2 cube of Douglas Fir taken to the Men's Shed, and the two cube or so already at my place.



    By 2 o'clock it was finished, all the floor stacked like pallets ready for pick up:






    I would now estimate it as about 80 sq.m of flooring, having looked at where it came out of (downstairs only). Upstairs would be a mammoth ~1200 sq.m so I'm glad they are leaving it! (although there are some very nice 12x3" DF beams .....

    Tomorrow I have the doubtful pleasure of denailing the thinner DF sticks on-site:





    And right now I'm going for a well earned snooze!

    Will do some fooling around with denailing the Cypress later and post some pics.
    Regards, FenceFurniture

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  12. #26
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    I think I'm more and more drawn to Joe's Arbor Press idea.

    I got one of the 4x3 hardwood lengths and drilled a 6mm hole through. Positioned the nail over the hole and punched it out (you're quite right Bob - get a bigger hammer). The object of the exercise was not to develop a punching technique that will work - even after I get the feel right it will still be a stupendous amount of hammer swinging (say 70 sq.m with two nails every 400mm is around 3500 nails - yeah right). The object was to find out how well the backing support worked when punching it over the hole, and the result was no breakout - nil. However what did happen was that the tapered punch would often split the board, and that just won't do.

    So, I'm thinking a 4-5mm spike 20mm long on the end of an arbor press might be the go. Have a 6-7mm hole in a steel plate underneath it for support.

    One other thing I will try is drilling out one side of the nail (the snapped side). The idea here would be to get it drilled down perhaps 4mm below the surface so that at least that side can go over the jointer. Maybe need to run over some of them with an angle grinder first because even a 10mm protrusion will just bend when hit the a hammer - because the rust has glued them in place.
    Regards, FenceFurniture

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  13. #27
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    Hey crowie, thanks for your thanks, but you may want to unsubscribe from this thread before you read my comments after the following picture. O'course, you won't do that because I know how curious you'll be to see what sca scheme I have dreamt up.
    Quote Originally Posted by FenceFurniture View Post
    By 2 o'clock it was finished, all the floor stacked like pallets ready for pick up:


    I was thinking that a Ford with a trailer would be an excellent choice. Car shape and colour don't matter much, but by crikey a burgundy sedan would be appropriate.

    Reckon I can get the boss to provide the lifters because they have saved around $3000 at least by me taking the timber (talk about a great win-win situation).

    Now of course I still have a reasonable stash of Black Heart Sassy.......just sitting in my drawers doing nuttin.......and as the ultimate tempter there's a couple of pieces of Zebra Wood.......MMmmmm mmmmm.
    Regards, FenceFurniture

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  15. #29
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    Not a bad thought Paul. Being mechanised is good but I wonder how controllable the force applied would be? That's one of the appeals of a manual Arbor Press - I'm thinking that the force applied is up to how hard I pull on the lever.


    Hey Bob, is there any way we could approximate an approximation of the force of the hammer on the punch? Various surface areas and masses are given, and I would have to provide the speed and length of the hammer blow - could get pretty close with a stop watch. My idea here is to get an approx idea of whether I would need a 1 ton, 2 ton or whatever press.
    Regards, FenceFurniture

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  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by FenceFurniture View Post
    Hey crowie, thanks for your thanks, but you may want to unsubscribe from this thread before you read my comments after the following picture. O'course, you won't do that because I know how curious you'll be to see what sca scheme I have dreamt up.



    I was thinking that a Ford with a trailer would be an excellent choice. Car shape and colour don't matter much, but by crikey a burgundy sedan would be appropriate.

    Reckon I can get the boss to provide the lifters because they have saved around $3000 at least by me taking the timber (talk about a great win-win situation).

    Now of course I still have a reasonable stash of Black Heart Sassy.......just sitting in my drawers doing nuttin.......and as the ultimate tempter there's a couple of pieces of Zebra Wood.......MMmmmm mmmmm.
    G'Day Brett, I may have had a big belt to the head BUT I'm not that slow....
    I thought it was the old bowlo behind your place from the photos??
    Do you need me up the hill to help move some timber??
    It'll be a bit tricky to organize with some happenings this week... today would have been good as I was free so to speak....
    Let me know...Cheers, Peter

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