Chinese TIG welder Comparison

**19brendan81** · 2nd July 2009, 10:15 AM

I have been researching the various AC/DC chinese TIG machines on ebay for a long while now, and finally I bought one on Thursday last week. At first glance nearly all of these machines appear to be the same machine with a different colour paint and brand name applied to it, however upon closer inspection I found that each of the machines has slightly different features that may indicate that they do indeed come from different factories overseas, despite sharing the same metal case. This is a phenomenon which has long been common in the computing world where individual manufacturers install their own circuitry into a common case.

In the interests of the many people that frequent these forums looking for advice on the ebay chinese TIG machines, I will present the findings of my research here for all to make their own decision about which brand is best for them. This is not an opportunity to start yet another thread for people to promote the purchase of a "good" second hand machine nor to suggest that the only welders worth talking about are $8000 fronius/miller/kemppi machines. This is for people interested in an entry level TIG machine for hobby purposes, like myself. With that out of the road, I will get to it.

At the time of writing this (1/7/09) the AC/DC TIG machine market on ebay has changed a lot since when I first started looking for a hobby TIG machine about 12 months ago. Back then there were equal numbers of 160 amp and 200 amp machines available, with most offering 4 in 1 functionality incorporating Arc, AC TIG, DC TIG and Plasma Cutter. Price at that time was between $600 and $800 for the 160 amp machines and $800 and $1000 for the 200 amp machines.

These days however, the 160 amp machines have vanished entirely and only a couple of brands offer the 4 in 1 machine. The price has risen considerably also, with $1200 being the entry level price point and $2250 being the top of the market. At this point I should mention that the scope of this review only covers 200amp AC/DC machines. I am aware that there are many DC only machines including models from CIG that can be had for a fraction of the prices talked about here, however they will not be considered in this review as I (like many potential TIG welder customers) was only interested in a machine that could weld aluminium as well as the other DC friendly metals.

The first thing I noticed about the machines on ebay was that despite the common case there were models with 5 adjustment dials, models with 8 adjustment dials and models with 9 adjustment dials. These potentiometers are in addition to the AC/DC, on/off, normal/pulse, 2T/4Tand arc/tig toggle switches that are common to all machines. These dials represent a selection of features out of a pool of about 12 that is available in total. Machines do exist that offer all of these functions at once (I.E 12 controls) but not on ebay and not at the prices we are talking about here. Each of these 12 features is explained below. Note that due to the various translations that occur in the factories, and the preferences of manufacturers, these features can be called confusingly different names despite reffering to the same thing.

Current Controls
Start Current - this is a feature where the initial current applied through the arc is different to the main welding current for a number of seconds before ramping up/down to the main current
Basic Current/Base Current/Background Current - when pulse welding, this is current at the bottom of the pulse
Peak Current/Pulse Current/Welding Current - when pulse welding, this is the current at the top of the pulse

About half of the machines I investigated offer 2 current controls, the rest all three. When pulse welding is not selected, the main current adjusting knob differs from machine to machine, but is one of the three listed above.

Pulse Controls
Pulse Width/Pulse Duty - this is the amount of time the welder spends at the peak amperage of the pulse, usually as a percentage of time spent at the low amperage: eg you can adjust your welder to spend 25% of the time at 100amps and 75% of the time at 70amps when pulse welding.
Pulse Frequency - this is the amount of pulses which occur in a second. eg you can adjust your welder to deliver 1 pulse per second, or 10 pulses per second etc.

Gas Controls
Pre Flow - The amount of time that gas is discharged through the torch before the arc is struck.
Post Flow/Gas After Flow/Post Gas - The amount of time that gas is discharged through the torch after the arc terminates.

AC Wave Controls
AC Balance/Clean Width - The amount of time the machine spends in the positve/negative cycle of an AC current, usually as a percentage (i.e 40% neg and 60% pos). More negative polarity = more cleaning of the oxide layer that instantly forms on molten aluminium, more positive polarity = greater depth of weld pool but less cleaning. As this oxide layer can only be removed during an AC cycle, this is why only AC/DC machines can weld aluminium properly.
AC Frequency - adjusts the amount of times the machine swaps polarity in a second, which allows the user to vary the molten pool from fine and deep to broad and shallow. This is not to be confused with pulse frequency. As mentioned earlier, using the pulse frequency adjustment you can set your machine to deliver 1 pulse per second. If your machine offers AC frequency adjustment you can set how many times it swaps between positive and negative during that single pulse/second. On machines which dont offer this feature, the frequency is usually fixed at 60hz (60 changes of polarity in a second).

Other Controls
Upslope - sets the amount of seconds that a machine spends at start current before rising/lowering to welding current. At the time of writing none of the machines on ebay have this feature.
Downslope - sets the amount of seconds that the machine spends to drop from welding current until the arc stops entirely. Useful for preventing craters from occurring when the arc is killed too quickly.
Arc Force - this adjustment is not for tig welding, it is for MMA welding only. It is used to change the characteristics of the machine to suit different welding rods. Only one brand has this feature (Allmax).

So which machines have which features? Well I originally intended on inserting a table here which would quickly and efficiently compare the various machines. However im blowed if I know how to do that. If someone does, id appreciate a PM, until then ill try explain the situation in words.

The machines available at time of writing are as follows. These are all 200 amp machines with pulse. The Ebay machines which do not offer pulse are not being compared here. These are identifiable instantly by only having 5 adjustment dials instead of 8 or 9.

Boswell - $1295 buy it now
Allmax - $1200 buy it now
Mach - $1400 +/- at auction (note - there is another brand on there now called Mitech that appears to be identical to this one except for with a different name)
Token Tools - auctions from $1599 or $2250 buy it now
Weldsmart - $1795 or $1645 buy it now. Unsure of difference between the two models as the adds are identical, but I think only the $1795 model has AC frequency adjustment.

All of the above welders offer high frequency start, pulse welding, 2T/4T, downslope and pulse width controls. Besides from that.....

The Weldsmart and Boswell machines have 3 amperage controls, all others two.
The Allmax machine is the only one to offer Arc Force adjustments.
The Token tools and Weldsmart machines are the only machines to offer AC frequency adjustment.
The Token tools machine is the only one which doesnt include a foot pedal as part of the package.
The Mach (and now Mitech) machine is the only one which also includes a plasma cutter.
The Weldsmart machine is the only one with a manual in proper english.

So, which way did I go? Well after some research I decided I was prepared to pay the extra money for AC frequency adjustment. Supposedly its a very useful feature, especially for a beginner. So that limited me to the Weldsmart and Token machines. In the end it was very close and a tough decision to make but Token got the edge, thus im now the proud owner of the INV200 model that retails for $2350 through their website. I got it for $1599, plus $68 postage.

Had I not wanted AC frequency adjustment I probably would have gone with the Boswell unit. The Allmax is $100 cheaper, however the Boswell's controls are better translated than the Allmax.

The 4 in 1 machines put me off a little bit. I was just concerned that they were trying to do too much at once, and once their price rose to near that of the top of the pile they were never in the race. Id probably get one if they were still around $1000 like they were when I first looked, but I think if you are paying $1500 for one of them then an extra $100 or $200 to get a Weldsmart or a Token is money well spent.

Well strewth that took a while to write. I hope that the information here helps someone out there to make a decision about what they want in a hobby welder. I havent even fired mine up yet, but once I do I plan on giving it a full road test and will post the results here as soon as that happens.

**DeltaNegative** · 3rd July 2009, 07:43 PM

I think the biggest potential problem with these machines is getting them fixed when something goes wrong, I'm told the quality if generally spot on but as a hobby machine chances are its going to be sitting around a fair bit and if you have purchased the machine off a small seller it may be difficult getting repair parts 2, 5 or even 10 years down the track. With the major players while they may charge twice the price I know that in 20 years time I can still get it fixed. A mate recently was able to easily get his ancient CIG Transmig 195 fixed hassle free when it broke.

Forgive my cautious attitude

Looking forward to a full review of you machine, for what you get the Chinese machines are exceptional value for money.

**Pulpo** · 3rd July 2009, 10:29 PM

Interesting, I've been toying with this purchased as well.

Yes I too would love the upper end brand names but could never justify that cost.

So the choice, own a cheaper unit or never own the fancier unit.

A risk I'm prepared to take.

I think some other member also recently chose this brand.

I too will await the review.

And I too have noticed the price increase.

Enjoy

Pulpo

**19brendan81** · 6th July 2009, 10:59 AM

I hear everyone with the concers re qual. But I firmly believe that in recent years China has lifted its game significantly re production quality. The machine I just received certainly looks and feels great from the outside.

A Miller Dynasty 200 amp inverter with pulse cost around $8000. I could literally buy one of every single brand machine on ebay for that money....its just unjustifiable as a home user to spend 8K a welder. At least if your a business you can write that off on tax and thus get some back.

I am going to use this machine a lot in its first year, I have a stack of projects in the pipeline...thus if there are any bugs in it they will be found quickly.

I was playing with the arc welder on the weekend, and it was hands down the best arc welder I have ever used. My cousin who has never welded in his life was running beads without the rod sticking. On the review front, I just picked up my argon and tungsten 10 mins ago. Will be welding TIG soon and will post review then.

**chips63** · 10th July 2009, 04:35 PM

Thanks for your great report Brendan,

I am also looking at Tokentools and wondered how your machine is performing.

I am looking at the TC 205 which looks exactly like your machine but also has the plasma cutter.

I can't find any reports or forums on this model and it is not even listed on their website, all I know is it sells out of their shop for $2550.00 or when on ebay starts at $1899.00.

If anyone can tell me anything about this model that would be great, as I feel $2550.00 is a bit steep for home use, Tokentools can't tell me when they will be on ebay next as they only go on ebay when they have surplus stock.

Thanks in advance

**19brendan81** · 10th July 2009, 04:52 PM

I mentioned that I will do a full report on here and I will once I have rounded up enough scrap to work on. I want to test it out on stainless, alloy and mild steel in a range of sections. I will get there as I progess through the backlog of projects I have in the pipeline!

Until then I have only played around with it on a hunk of 12mm thick steel plate. My impressions so far are....

1) see comments in above post re arc welder. Its really, really good.

2) The TIG is also fantastic. I havent joined anything yet, but I played with the pulser and its really cool....you can really get that fish scale look with ease when using a pulse.

This weekend I am building benchtops for my workshop, so ill post up some photos of the job. I cant wait to get started!

**Rossluck** · 11th July 2009, 10:24 AM

Can I just say that there is another aspect to the buying of cheap tools generally, and that is the feeling of confidence in them. This isn't spoken about often, but for me it's becoming more and more of an issue. Who out there hasn't bought a cheap tool (GMC say) with the attitude of "well at this price if it breaks down it doesn't matter". But after a while this becomes annoying. After a few very inconvenient break downs: you know, where it starts to burn and fizz and smoke and you say "that'd be right ...". In other words, right from the start a part of you is waiting for it to fail. I don't like working with tools that give me that feeling.

Eventually, you start to swing back to the idea of spending that little bit more on a better brand. My approach for a long time is to but good quality second hand rather than sparkling new el cheapo. So, I'd rather buy a $1500 CIG, Miller, or whatever TIG than spend $1500 on a bright shiny new cheap one.

Don't get me wrong Brendan, I've not saying that you've made a mistake. What I'm saying is that you may have a great run out of your machine, but you will always have "that feeling".

**Grahame Collins** · 11th July 2009, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by 19brendan81

2) The TIG is also fantastic. I havent joined anything yet, but I played with the pulser and its really cool....you can really get that fish scale look with ease when using a pulse.

Hi Brendan,
I feel I have to respond to this.Please don't take it as an attack on you ,its not. Its on the notion that many of the American DIY welders seem to promote about the fish scale appearance.

What you undoubtedly allude to is the the "stack of dimes finish" As you might pick up here, I have very strong opinions on this this.

1 .This scaled finished is a series of basically sharp edges. Sharp edges are the very opposite of what is required in a weld bead finish.Taken to its extreme ,when the weld is stressed ,the sharp wedges are where cracks. start. This appearance is promoted ad nauseaum but not once in any of what I have read is there offered a reason for this.
It really is not all that difficult to learn the method to dip the rod into the molten pool and end up with a fine ripple ripple finish .
It is a bit like sharpening a drill bit. They decide its altogether too hard and then start promoting the need for a drill doctor.

The pulser was designed to handle thin sections and prevent burn through and you will find it a great help with aluminium if your Tig is AC equipped.

Have a look at any of the photos of the high quaility pressure pipe work (including American work) done with tig and this technique is not to be seen.

At best it just poor technique and not a technique a good welder should strive for.

Enjoy your new machine .What you will like is the ability to join really thin materials.
Cheers
Grahame

**jgb7** · 11th July 2009, 01:12 PM

I have to agree Rossluck, buy the best you can afford, even if you have to save up a bit longer. I have had a bosch grinder (4.5inch) for over 23years and never had a problem with the abuse I have given it.
The Chinese may have improved but they are overpriced, compared to manufacture costs, and unreliable. Give me German made any day.

**Rossluck** · 11th July 2009, 07:26 PM

I didn't mean this to be an attack on Brendan in any way, or as a criticism of his purchase. I guess I just hijacked the thread to have a rant about something that's been on my mind. My brother and I recently bought a Chinese TIG (Renegade) and we both love using it. It does everything very well and has been reliable. It seems well built.

But we have other welders to fall back to if it throws the towel in at a crucial moment. The other welders are good second hand ones: a Fronius ($750), a Miller ($450), and a Lincoln ($80).

As someone who works in the building industry, I can tell youi that the el cheapo days disappeared as quickly as they began. For a while there, there were empty GMC and Ozito boxes in just about every rubbish bin. There were all sorts of laser systems and extra teeth and lights and ridiculous guarantees, and alien looking machines turning up every where. But now all of the contractors have returned to Makita, De Walt, Hitachi, Metabo, Bosch and Panasonic etc.,.

**boilermaker1** · 11th July 2009, 08:30 PM

I am trying to talk the Boss into buying a Unitig AC/DC 200
They look like the cheep tigs you can get on eBay and most likely made in the same factory.The only reason I am pushing this machine is it is a known brand and it is sold by a company that we deal with so if something goes wrong we have some come back.If it is half as good as our Unimig mig welder witch is about 10 years old it should be ok.

By the way the company last week purchased a BOC 160 amp plasma cutter.and I have been testing what it can cut
I have been able to cut 4" cast iron down to 1.2mm stainless steel
I don't know how we did with out it.

**19brendan81** · 13th July 2009, 10:47 AM

The "good" second hand machine is something I considered and dismissed very quickly, for the following reasons.

1) if these "good" brands are as good as everyone says and they last forever, then why are they being sold second hand? They obviously are lacking features that new machines have, or they dont function like they used to.
2) almost all of these second hand machines are three phase, which is of little use to the average DIY punter.

3) most of these machines are sold as power supplies, you have to shell out extra for the foot pedal, torch, earth clamp etc. The only second hand one I found which was tempting was a $2500 15 year old kempii. When I looked into purchasing the other bits and pieces for it I would have been out to 3500 - 4000...which is lunacy for the home hobby metalworker.

The token tools unit is sold through a shopfront that you can visit and have a phone number you can ring and speak to blokes who know welding. I do not have any of that nervous feeling you get with $10 bunnings powertools at all, as I know service and help is only a phone call away. This was something I didnt mention in my review, but was part of the reason I chose this brand.

P.S as mentioned in my first post, I do not want this thread to turn into yet another boring debate about chinese machines vs other machines. If someone wants to start a thread on second hand tigs vs new ebay tigs i will be happy to continue the debate there.

**19brendan81** · 13th July 2009, 10:48 AM

P.P.S thanks for your advice grahame, I am hoping you will be able to give me some pointers when I post photos of my welds soon.

**Rossluck** · 13th July 2009, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by 19brendan81

P.S as mentioned in my first post, I do not want this thread to turn into yet another boring debate about chinese machines vs other machines. If someone wants to start a thread on second hand tigs vs new ebay tigs i will be happy to continue the debate there.

Fair enough. I skimmed. Sorry mate.

**19brendan81** · 13th July 2009, 03:49 PM

Nah no problems mate.

Its just that this debate usually ends up going round and round in circles as there are pros and cons for going both ways (second hand v new chinese).

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