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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cliff Rogers View Post
    Trouble is that they want $42.50 for freight on one box.
    Well that took the shine off.
    Your welder is a DC inverter and as such will give you the absolute best conditions t run low hydrogen electrodes, just make sure you run the electrode on the positive side and the earth on the negative.
    Either 7016 or 7018 electrodes will serve you well in either 2.5 or 3.2mm sizes. As long as the packets are still sealed, age is not a massive factor and those cigweld 7018 should be fine.

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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cliff Rogers View Post
    Trouble is that they want $42.50 for freight on one box.
    Yeah, their stupid shopping cart makes you set up an account before you can find out what the damage is for postage - a box of 2.6mm & 3.2mm comes to $80, which sounds pretty good, until you add the $47.50 freight. Might need to check out my local source of Kobelco rods for a price, as I've been meaning to try out some LH electrodes.

    My storage plan was to use a bit of 100mm DWV pipe with caps and some silica gel.

  4. #18
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    Yeah, I could maybe understand $42.50 for freight if it was air freight overnight from Perth but they are posting it from Townsville, about 320Kms away.

    I sent them a e-mail to say that they need to look into their freight costs.
    Cliff.
    If you find a post of mine that is missing a pic that you'd like to see, let me know & I'll see if I can find a copy.

  5. #19
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    Depending on Karl's opinion, I've got a few rod options I'd be happy to send a handful of to you at the cost of shipping.
    Options are Kobe 2.6/7018 (same as the previous links, and a bit of an amusing story behind them), and WIA Austarc 3.2/4816 or 2.5/4916A.
    Thing is that they've all been sitting around with the packets open, maybe a year and a half at tops, I could bake them in my rod oven before sending them off if that'd be enough.

    My acquisition of the Kobes makes me chuckle - My work gets in an engineering mob to make/change jigs and molds all too often, and one day one of their boys was in and apparently struggling with those rods, and ended up deciding he was going to chuck the pack (down to half by that stage) so someone handballed them into my possession. You'd have thought that an engineering company would have been smarter, though saying that I often get left bemused at how counter-intuitive a lot of things my workplace does.

    So yep, if the consensus is that a good baking in the oven should recover them, then a handful of one/each is yours for the taking


    Whilst I'm here, I'm curious for the education regarding why not to use solid core MIG on that piece, please teach me Karl

  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordBug View Post
    Depending on Karl's opinion, I've got a few rod options I'd be happy to send a handful of to you at the cost of shipping.
    Options are Kobe 2.6/7018 (same as the previous links, and a bit of an amusing story behind them), and WIA Austarc 3.2/4816 or 2.5/4916A......

    So yep, if the consensus is that a good baking in the oven should recover them, then a handful of one/each is yours for the taking


    Whilst I'm here, I'm curious for the education regarding why not to use solid core MIG on that piece, please teach me Karl
    G'day.
    I'd be keen to give some of each a try.
    These post packs are the way to go.
    http://auspost.com.au/parcels-mail/parcel-post.html

    Just wrap the rods in plastic & a bit of bubble wrap so they don't poke a hole in the bag.

    The 500g bag is most likely too small but the 3Kg bag should be big enough to hold them.
    That will cost about $14.

    A mailing tube might also work but I reckon it would cost more that the prepaid 3Kg satchels.

    I'll send you a PM.
    Cliff.
    If you find a post of mine that is missing a pic that you'd like to see, let me know & I'll see if I can find a copy.

  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordBug View Post
    ....
    Whilst I'm here, I'm curious for the education regarding why not to use solid core MIG on that piece, please teach me Karl
    Yup, I'd like to hear that too.

    I wasn't going to try 'cos I reckon I wouldn't get it hot enough using .9mm wire & it would take about a week to build up a decent fillet.
    Cliff.
    If you find a post of mine that is missing a pic that you'd like to see, let me know & I'll see if I can find a copy.

  8. #22
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    A good baking in either the rod oven or the missus oven will go a long way to reconditioning those electrodes, not to original specs perhaps, but good enough.
    Okay, for the solid mig question.
    Mig is a Low Hydrogen process, so that box is ticked however, unless somewhat exotic wires are used or more usually a gas shielded flux cored wire, Mig has poorer ductility, yield strength and impact resistance than a Low Hydrogen stick electrode. You could say that solid mig has equal tensile strength to the average Low Hydrogen stick - actually Mig is a fraction higher - but it is not as tough a deposit and will be more prone to fracturing and failure from the inevitable working of the joint over the years. Secondly, given that this is a component of somewhat unknown parentage and age, Low Hydrogen electrodes will better handle variable steel quality and specification and potential contaminants.
    From memory, something like 80% of industrial welding is carried out using the Mig process, but stick welding still has the lions share of steam lines, oil pipelines and other such critical applications, particularly where extreme cold and/or heat are involved.
    Here's a comparison of a Autocraft LW-1 ER70-6 mig wire, a Kobe RB-26 6013 rutile electrode,Kobe DW100 flux core wire and Kobe LB 52-18 Low hydrogen electrodes.
    Firstly yield strength (the force taken to permanently deform a sample)
    LW-1 420mPa, RB-26 450mPa, DW100 510mPa, LB52-18 500mPa.
    Tensile strength (the force taken to stretch a sample until it breaks)
    LW-1 520mPa, RB-26 510mPa, DW100 570mPa, LB52-18 560mPa
    Elongation (the amount a sample stretches before breaking in a tensile test)
    LW-1 30%, RB-26 25%, DW100 30%, LB52-18 31%
    Impact (known as Charpy V notch testing and performed at various temperatures depending upon intended application)
    LW-1 110 joules @ -20C, RB-26 testing not performed, DW100 85 joules @-18C, LB52-18 110 joules @ -29C
    To muddy the waters, these tests are performed on "all weld metal" sample pieces, their performance in the real world does vary, but at least we have a base line to compare.
    It can easily be seen that solid mig (LW-1) performs very well and really only gives substantial ground on yield strength and low temperature impact toughness, although it could also be said that it really is not much better than a Kobe RB-26 rutile electrode which has very similar specs across the board.
    Where the Flux core wire and LB52-18 really start pulling ahead is in yield strength and in the case of the LB52-18, impact toughness, both really good attributes to have in highly stressed components.
    Confused you yet?
    Now let's add in another factor, fatigue resistance. In my experience, solid wire mig is more prone to work hardening and fatigue cracking than either flux core or low hydrogen electrodes.
    When the chips are down most boilermakers, myself included, will always reach for a low hydrogen stick, (they can even weld cast iron using the correct procedure) and be secure in the longevity of the job. Low Hydrogen electrodes are even available up to 800+mPa tensile ratings.
    When in doubt, preheat - a good bit doesn't hurt either and hit the job with a Low Hydrogen stick.

  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cliff Rogers View Post
    G'day.

    This is the shaft off a ball joint on the 3 point linkage draw bar for a tractor drawn grader.

    It has been welded up twice with a stick welder & some old high tensile rods but the weld breaks at the point of contact with the metal.

    The rods are old, the packet was opened several years ago, they are crap to use, hard to strike an arc till they warm up & then they start to stick once they are hot.

    Can somebody please recommend rods for this job?

    Thanks.
    Hi Cliff,
    Looking at this shaft and flange; where the weld has separated and the age of the grader, I'm thinking that this may be a casting! Damn hard to tell from a picture, but if it is then the best solution would be to machine a new one.

  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stringy View Post
    Hi Cliff,
    Looking at this shaft and flange; where the weld has separated and the age of the grader, I'm thinking that this may be a casting! Damn hard to tell from a picture, but if it is then the best solution would be to machine a new one.
    Nuh, the end of the shaft has machine marks on it like it was turned on a lathe. Look at the end of the shaft near the 50cent coin.

    The shaft was never cast as part of the ball socket (flange) until it was welded on, the weld has broken. (several times)
    Cliff.
    If you find a post of mine that is missing a pic that you'd like to see, let me know & I'll see if I can find a copy.

  11. #25
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    It is a pity 4mm is too big for you... I have about 400kg of 7018's to give away...
    Light red, the colour of choice for the discerning man.

  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cliff Rogers View Post
    Nuh, the end of the shaft has machine marks on it like it was turned on a lathe. Look at the end of the shaft near the 50cent coin.

    The shaft was never cast as part of the ball socket (flange) until it was welded on, the weld has broken. (several times)
    Thought those machine marks may have been from a previous repair/weld prep.

  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by .RC. View Post
    It is a pity 4mm is too big for you... I have about 400kg of 7018's to give away...
    I'd have a go at them, I'll PM you.
    Cliff.
    If you find a post of mine that is missing a pic that you'd like to see, let me know & I'll see if I can find a copy.

  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by .RC. View Post
    It is a pity 4mm is too big for you... I have about 400kg of 7018's to give away...
    His welder will run them provided his power supply is okay.

  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stringy View Post
    Thought those machine marks may have been from a previous repair/weld prep.
    Good thought process, but I reckon the whole thing has been fabricated, you can tell the flange has been oxy cut and can pick the remnants of a weld between the flange and the socket section.
    One thing for sure, the shaft needs a lot more weld prep before it gets welded up this time. If it were me, I would prep it down to a 15-20mm diameter point and then tack it up, preheat to 200 C weld it up and cool slowly.

  16. #30
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    Blokes, if you have a Global near you, a lot of the prices on the web are wrong.

    Print the page & walk through the door, don't let them see the page til you ask if they have them in stock.
    http://www.globalweldingsupplies.com...36_118_39.html

    I went to the the Cairns branch today.
    I had printed out the page for the Kobe LB52-18 at $35.25 + GST for 5Kgs &, surprise, surprise, they said didn't seem have them in stock.
    I asked what the did have, they said the Kobe LB52U (they are the 7016) but the couldn't do them at that price.
    I told them to go to their web site, click Products, then Click Low Hydrogen & then scroll down & show me the price.
    He cursed & then laughed & said the boss wouldn't like it but he would have to sell them to me at that price, they were $41.50 + GST for 5Kgs.

    Trade practices says that they have to sell them at the advertised price.
    The only way out of it is if they don't have them in stock.
    You have to get them to tell you that they have them in stock first.

    If you need something & you have one nearby, check the web, fair chance the price is wrong.
    It is no good trying to do it by web order 'cos they can get out of it by not having it in stock or charge HEAPS for freight.

    The bloke in the shop says he knows that the web prices are wrong but nobody will fix them.

    Fair game I reckon.

    Here is the list of stores.

    Brisbane
    Unit 2/47 Tile St, Wacol, 4076
    Ph: 07 3271 2577

    Mt Isa
    21 Commercial Rd, Mt Isa, 4825
    Ph: 07 4743 3377

    Gladstone
    33A Chapple Street, Gladstone, 4680
    Ph: 07 4976 9800

    Mackay
    37 Connors Road, Paget, 4740
    Ph: 07 4952 1877

    Townsville
    32 Leyland Street, Garbutt, 4814
    Ph: 07 4755 0850

    Cairns
    1/16 Atticus Street, Woree, 4870
    Ph: 07 4033 0411
    Cliff.
    If you find a post of mine that is missing a pic that you'd like to see, let me know & I'll see if I can find a copy.

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