Thread: which electric welder to get

Originally Posted by crookedcut

Hi...I am new to this great forum...have browsed this forum alot and have finally decided to register and contribute...I cannot contribute to this metalworking forum as yet as I am a virgin to this...woodworking is my hobby...but have decided to expand and try some metal working..welding and cutting for jigs and such..I have no metal working tools so I would like a few ideas...just at a beginners cost if you would...no bells and whistles just want it to work WELL....TIA

Hi Crooked, as a woodworker it is a huge bonus to be able to weld.

In my opinion, a MIG welder is most suitable as its unlikely that you will weld steel thicker than 1/2" and a MIG produces a nice clean weld with no slag to chip off. I think you should be able to get a decent 130-160amp gas MIG in the U.S. for under US$500. Get one that uses Argon gas, which is an extra cost but well worth it.

I recommend you read a book or two on the subject to get educated first before buying anything.

A mig might be nice but is far more expensive to buy and run than a simple Arc Welder.

My ex Son inlaw was a boilermaker and has always had a stick welder, his opiinion was that MIG wasn't worth the hassle & expense at home

So for someone new just doing it as a hobby I would just use an Arc Welder.
I have had an arc welder since I was a teenager over 40 years ago.

My current stick welder cost $99 from supercheap autos, Its a GMC brand. and its far superior to my old CIG arc welder.

I know that this debate has been had quite a few times here already but I'll add my two cents anyways.

I think that Bob is right for the average home use. I will be buying a MIG in the future but only because I have plans for welding thin sheet metal in the future.
At school if I need to do a quick welding job I'll go for the ARC because its quick and easy. MIG's are more expensive to buy and run and are harder to get a good quality weld. They are easier to use but that doesn't mean you'll get a good weld. However if they are setup right they are great.

For a beginner welding anything over 2.5mm thick go for ARC, if you know you'll regularly be welding stuff thinner that 1.5 you might need the MIG

Originally Posted by Wood Butcher

I know that this debate has been had quite a few times here already but I'll add my two cents anyways.

I think that Bob is right for the average home use. I will be buying a MIG in the future but only because I have plans for welding thin sheet metal in the future.
At school if I need to do a quick welding job I'll go for the ARC because its quick and easy. MIG's are more expensive to buy and run and are harder to get a good quality weld. They are easier to use but that doesn't mean you'll get a good weld. However if they are setup right they are great.

For a beginner welding anything over 2.5mm thick go for ARC, if you know you'll regularly be welding stuff thinner that 1.5 you might need the MIG

Agree that a MIG is more expensive to purchase and maintain.

I have no experience with an Arc welder so I guess I cant really say that for sure one is better than the other.
If Crooked wants to make jigs and fixtures etc, wouldn't a MIG be better suited as you would generally be using 1.0mm-3.0mm thick steel? Its also good because its like using a hot melt glue gun as in you can just keep adding small welds here and there and always see whats going on, but with an Arc its messy and you have to chip off the slag.

WB, just interested as to why you think ARC is quick and easy for you?
My MIG setup is all on a custom made trolley(good first project ) with everything on it. Gas bottle, side cutters, clamps, mask etc. I just wheel it out, plug it in and turn on the regulator.

All I use for all my cutting and grinding is an angle grinder with either a 1.5mm? cut-off disc or the thicker 6mm disc for grinding.

my 1 cents worth
l have both a mig and a stick
they do diffrent things the stick weld is stronger by a street
the mig is great for light stuff and also if you have to build the weld up ,,best tool ever a grinder with the thin cut off disc like martrix said no more hacksawing dont get any stick welder under 140 amps

I would go with the Arc. Have had both at the larger scale end (250amp arc and 500amp Mig). Less mucking about and less cost in a home occasional workshop. Only down side is the issue with very thin metals, but there are work arounds (and when all else fails, rivet it!)
Cheers

Donald

Hi Crookedcut
Welcome to the forum,
Comparing apples with apples the humble stickwelder will generally outperform the Mig most of the time

1. Cost price
2. Maintainence
3. No re occuring costs-eg cylinder rental .38c Au perday
4.Simple skills and a little knowledge required
5.Electrodes available for a range of metals
6.Can weld down to 1.6mm -16g for Americans
7.Reliability Put it away for ten years and get it out again and away it will go.

Thats my 2c worth

Grahame

A budget angle grinder with a thin cutting wheel, and a budget stick welder sounds like it will get you a fair way for very little money. You effectively get what you pay for - budget stuff will get you something that can function at home handyman throughput for a few years and allow you to build up basic skills. By then you will know if its for you and then you can decide to upgrade and then the sky is the limit.

A few other tips:
A wire wheel for the grinder will allow you to quickly clean up scrap metal so you can practice cutting/welding or even construct with it. A short flap sanding disk for the angle grinder is useful way of cleaning up after the welding job prior to painting.

A wide selection of sizes of metal C-clamps (eg 3, 4 and 6 ") and magnetic mitre hold alls will allow you to secure you work safely and will be handy for other things.

A couple of pairs of multigrips are often better for holding small bits than clamps. A pair of pliers or tongs on hand are essential for picking up hot bits of metal as is some water in a bucket in case things go pear shaped.

Welding/grinding metal in a home shop on a wooden bench or wooden floor with wood shavings and dust and welding fumes around is hazardous. If you can, set up a separate area of your shed away from fire hazards. A dedicated metal surfaced bench with a machinist vice is very handy. I avoid welding in my shed and usually work outside on brick paving. My welding table consists of two bits of angle iron welded to a 2 x 2 ft steel plate which I clamp to 2 saw horses.

Don't forget the safety gear, decent flip welding helmet and long leather gloves when using the welder. Ear muffs, full face shield when using the angle grinder and wire wheel. Wear long sleeves and tough pants and decent boots when using these tools.

After this its reading/practice and if you know someone who can give you a brief run down on what to do and can watch you welding they can help correct any problems and help you progress mreo quickly.

I hope that helps.

Originally Posted by crookedcut

but have decided to expand and try some metal working..welding and cutting for jigs and such

Mate Welcome to the forum
Here in Australia we have local Technical Colleges in most larger towns and they run beginners welding courses if you have the equivelent in your local area I would suggest you do a beginners course and see which welder suits you best , a stick welder can be for some just a natural extension of the arm and from the first use is a joy to use for others it can be the most frustrating device satan ever made , for ease of use for a novice an inverter type is proberly the easiest to use from scratch but has limitations with penertration and is far more expensive ( I am still saving for one to replace my arc welder) , the mig is also and easy use welder but though not as expensive as an inverter ( at the lower end of the range ) is more expensive to run ,
as for cutting a good angle grinder, 5" , is a great investment and then use either cutting or grinding blades as required , the added bonus is you can also with the correct blades cut stone , concrete, tiles etc


Rgds

Originally Posted by martrix

WB, just interested as to why you think ARC is quick and easy for you? My MIG setup is all on a custom made trolley(good first project ) with everything on it. Gas bottle, side cutters, clamps, mask etc. I just wheel it out, plug it in and turn on the regulator.

I would call myself proficient in both machines. The reason I like stick is that I can adjust the heat of the weld with ARC simply but increasing or decreasing the arc length while I am welding. MIG isn't as forgiving if the voltage or the wire speed is not set right. But having said that I can also jump on one of the MIG's at school at know where to set the variables for what I am welding.

I like ARC welding because of the simplicity and versatility. I've literally done welding on a roof truss on a 20ft scaffold with a welder slung over my back. Do that with MIG!!

Its also good because its like using a hot melt glue gun as in you can just keep adding small welds here and there and always see whats going on, but with an Arc its messy and you have to chip off the slag.

I think that some people have a misconception with ARC welders and the slag. If you have the heat right for a stick weld, the slag will literally fall straight off the weld. I can tack up a job as good as a MIG could do with very little work to clean up the slag.

Having said all of this. I have had a lot of training in both ARC and Mig welding, but most of the work I did in welding (machine frames and industrial sheds) was using an ARC so I am very confident in my abilities. The best advice I can give in regards to beginner welding is what Ashoe suggested, go to a TAFE college and do a night course in intro welding. Most courses will cover ARC, MIG and maybe even oxy welding/cutting. By doing this you can sort of try before you buy and get a feel of what style suits what you want to do.

to all of you thanks alot for your replies...I think I will try the following if you think it is the right path..

arc welder..approx. 140amps...110or220 doesnt matter to me since my woodshop already uses 220...

all safety gear

like to stay around 200. on sale if possible for starting out just for welder the gear will be above that...

does this sound about right.....now I only need to be steered in the right direction on names to look at

again thanks to you all

Hard call, especially if you want to weld thin steel.
I have at home mig, tig, arc, and oxy. They all have different advantages and disadvantages.
If your goal is to weld .6mm mild steel then tig is your only option
If your goal is to weld 1mm mild steel then tig or mig with gas are your options
If your goal is to weld 1.2mm mild steel then tig or mig including gasless modes are your options
If your goal is to weld 1.6mm steel then tig and mig both modes and arc are your options

Cheapest unit to own and run is the arc welder about 80bucks aust purchase and rods for ongoing use. Second cheapest is your mig in the gasless mode about 350bucks aust plus gasless wire ongoing use. Mig in gas mode ongoing usse includes hiring and refilling gas bottles fill is about 120 hire is about 60 per year. Last unit which is the best of the best is a tig which costs about 5000aust and bottle hire and rods for ongoing use.
If you want to weld stainless and ally then a mig will do an okay job but you need rolls of wire nd teflon guide in your feed handle. Tig welds these materials perfectly just a different feeder rod and electrode
Steve

since I have never welded before I do not know what I am going to run up against..I have been woodworking since I was 10 with my dad..and have never had to have a welder up to my age at this point...BUT I am in the mood to learn something new...I would probably for the time anyway be doing angle iron and such to make wood jigs..as before I would have to hacksaw drill and tap...nothing serious at this point but I also said that 49 years ago when I cut my first piece of wood...lol

Originally Posted by Wood Butcher

I would call myself proficient in both machines. The reason I like stick is that I can adjust the heat of the weld with ARC simply but increasing or decreasing the arc length while I am welding. MIG isn't as forgiving if the voltage or the wire speed is not set right. But having said that I can also jump on one of the MIG's at school at know where to set the variables for what I am welding.

I like ARC welding because of the simplicity and versatility. I've literally done welding on a roof truss on a 20ft scaffold with a welder slung over my back. Do that with MIG!!

I think that some people have a misconception with ARC welders and the slag. If you have the heat right for a stick weld, the slag will literally fall straight off the weld. I can tack up a job as good as a MIG could do with very little work to clean up the slag.

Having said all of this. I have had a lot of training in both ARC and Mig welding, but most of the work I did in welding (machine frames and industrial sheds) was using an ARC so I am very confident in my abilities. The best advice I can give in regards to beginner welding is what Ashoe suggested, go to a TAFE college and do a night course in intro welding. Most courses will cover ARC, MIG and maybe even oxy welding/cutting. By doing this you can sort of try before you buy and get a feel of what style suits what you want to do.

Fair enough and agree with all of it.

There is not a chance I would try and sling my MIG over my shoulder on a roof. Its hard enough trying to lift it off the ground.

I guess ARC is more versatile because you can weld different materials by just changing the rods that you are using. WB, have you ever welded Cast Iron? that would be handy.

I bought my MIG and taught myself from a book because I was restoring an old Holden and no panel beater would weld up the rust repair sections on the body, so I did it myself and the MIG was the right solution for it.

I guess I will definitely look into an ARC when I break something that is cast or when I need to weld something that is structural and needs the penetration.

I have a book somewhere, but is there a test I can do to see how much penetration I get from my MIG at its highest setting?