Thread: Mig Welder under $1000

Originally Posted by soundman

Realy one of these two welders is very hard to beat.
https://www.tradetools.com/products/NB160X

I have that painted as a UniMIG 165. Incidentally, I discovered the other day that the wire speed markings are *completely* wrong - it's marked from 1.5 to 14 m/min - I measured it after watching one of Jody's videos - max wire speed is about 6 m/min, not 14.

It doesn't matter that much in that I've got a set of speed/volt combos that I know work, it's just difficult when trying to compare to someone elses figures.

Originally Posted by Karl Robbers

I couldn't find a direct UNIMIG equivalent. Is the MIG 190 the UNIMIG that is closest?

Yup, when they went to the 190 they dropped the lower amp unit. While I'd happily recommend my 165, I really couldn't say the same for the 190 as I haven't used it, and since it's another rebadged design, there's no way of knowing if it's good. To me, you can't really have too much trust in a brand like UniMIG, you can only have trust in specific models that have each earned a good reputation.

Originally Posted by RustyArc

Yup, when they went to the 190 they dropped the lower amp unit. While I'd happily recommend my 165, I really couldn't say the same for the 190 as I haven't used it, and since it's another rebadged design, there's no way of knowing if it's good. To me, you can't really have too much trust in a brand like UniMIG, you can only have trust in specific models that have each earned a good reputation.

I totally agree. The single worst mig I have ever used bar none was a Unimig Portomig 200. Everytime my boss pushed it down my end of the workshop, I pushed it right back up to his end. It was flat out welding 3mm material and I have never seen a spatter generator like it. By comparison, I helped set up a Unimig Promig 240 for a mechanic and while I was expecting the absolute worst, it ran like a gem. Its worst feature was the single knob that could control wire feed, inductance, spot timer, burnback, pre and post flow as well as the stitch timer. Bump it by accident and you were up a well known creek rapidly.
I know it is most probably an unpopular view, but I would still take a good old transformer based mig welder, (either tapped or SCR controlled), over any of the inverter migs. Half the features on the whiz bang inverters aren't necessary and they don't handle abuse as well as the older units. Using inverters in an industrial setting, my experience has been that the older migs like Lincoln Idealarc's, WIA Fabricators, CIG Transmig 500's, and even CIG SC-3's keep burning wire while the super dooper, all singing and dancing inverter based units are being repaired. To me, a mig is not really at its best as a portable welder anyway.
I do still love my stick inverter though. It is the only inverter I own and most probably the only one I will own.

From what I understand this particular group of multiwelders are all comming out of the same factory in eastern europe block and are all basicly the same machine with some variances.

As for the markings on the knobs.

I would not have a clue what the actual figures mean....I just wind em up the voltage till it crackles and doesn't quite blow holes and adjust the wire feed accordingly.

Which on this machine is close to having both knobs in the same position...if the voltage is at 10 oclock..start with the wire feed at 10 oclock...a little more or a little less depending.
It would not matter to me if there where no figures on the knobs at all.

cheers

Originally Posted by soundman

From what I understand this particular group of multiwelders are all comming out of the same factory in eastern europe block and are all basicly the same machine with some variances.

As for the markings on the knobs.

I would not have a clue what the actual figures mean....I just wind em up the voltage till it crackles and doesn't quite blow holes and adjust the wire feed accordingly.

Which on this machine is close to having both knobs in the same position...if the voltage is at 10 oclock..start with the wire feed at 10 oclock...a little more or a little less depending.
It would not matter to me if there where no figures on the knobs at all.

cheers

If everybody learned to set a mig by sound, then the welding world would be a much better place. Even two machines of the same make and model will respond slightly differently and in the case of single phase in particular, the load on the local electricity grid will require retuning.
There is one workshop I end up in from time to time and even the three phase gear is affected by the coal washing plant on site, requiring at least one if not two steps on the fine voltage to gain the same parameters as when the plant isn't running.
I would actually like to measure the line voltage just to see what sort of voltage drop the plant produces in the workshop, but site safety officers get all worked up when boilermakers stick multimeter probes in power points.

Originally Posted by soundman

From what I understand this particular group of multiwelders are all comming out of the same factory in eastern europe block and are all basicly the same machine with some variances.

Mine has Jasic painted on it, which lead me to think they might be the actual OEM, and they do have a good rep for industrial machines. A google image search for Jasic throws up many machines that UniMIG have offered in the past and present.

What you need is a suitable volt meter "properly constructed" in a box with a three pin plug and cord.....tested and tagged of course.

Maybe even a three pin plug tail for your multimeter that has shrouded probes that plug into your meter might satisfy them.

Pokeing bare probes into outlets is considered "live work" and required a specific clause in the electrical legeslation to allow even licenced workers to do it without rolling out the rubber mat and filling in a JSA each time.

Oh then there is the other thing.....we are no longer a 240V country....they change the rules a few years ago..we are now a 230V country..suposedly to fall in line with the rest of the world.
Of course they will tell you that changed the tollerances and it should make no difference......yeh right.

All that said..relativly small amounts of voltage drop can have significant effects on certain processes.

Welding can involve a couple of processes that are not "electrically normal" and may be effected more than other electrical processes.

In other electrical transformers it is not normal and undesirable for the core to magnetically saturate.....but this is how iron cored welders controll current....and in just about every other electrical appliance arcing is definitely undesirable.

Id be very interested to see how inverter welders compare with iron core welders as far as how they are effected by voltage drop.

They are certainly way more efficient as far as how much electricity they consume for the amount output..

cheers

Originally Posted by Karl Robbers

the load on the local electricity grid will require retuning.

This is one of the many advantages of inverter machines - they can be true constant voltage machines, meaning the output doesn't need to be adjusted for changes in mains voltage. If the mains drops, the welder maintains the same voltage and power output by drawing more current. (Strictly speaking, depending on the impedance of the mains circuit, this increased current will lead to a further voltage drop, but at some point an equilibrium is reached).

Inverters certainly will compensate for line voltage variances which is a bit of a double edged sword because it can mask an actual supply issue. That's obviously not the fault of the inverter though.

Originally Posted by soundman

What you need is a suitable volt meter "properly constructed" in a box with a three pin plug and cord.....tested and tagged of course.

Maybe even a three pin plug tail for your multimeter that has shrouded probes that plug into your meter might satisfy them.

Pokeing bare probes into outlets is considered "live work" and required a specific clause in the electrical legeslation to allow even licenced workers to do it without rolling out the rubber mat and filling in a JSA each time.

Oh then there is the other thing.....we are no longer a 240V country....they change the rules a few years ago..we are now a 230V country..suposedly to fall in line with the rest of the world.
Of course they will tell you that changed the tollerances and it should make no difference......yeh right.

All that said..relativly small amounts of voltage drop can have significant effects on certain processes.

Welding can involve a couple of processes that are not "electrically normal" and may be effected more than other electrical processes.

In other electrical transformers it is not normal and undesirable for the core to magnetically saturate.....but this is how iron cored welders controll current....and in just about every other electrical appliance arcing is definitely undesirable.

Id be very interested to see how inverter welders compare with iron core welders as far as how they are effected by voltage drop.

They are certainly way more efficient as far as how much electricity they consume for the amount output..

cheers

I have chewed the ear of the site foreman on several occasions. The drop in the welder output doesn't bother me too much but hearing the workshop compressor struggling when starting up in times of low voltage tells me that the motor life is being compromised at best. His best answer is along the line that it hasn't blown up yet.

Thanks for the advice all, much appreciated.

I am still quite tempted to bring back one of the lincolns from the states.

under 1000....just

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lL78wTeI8nA

Originally Posted by codysheridan1

Thanks for the advice all, much appreciated.

I am still quite tempted to bring back one of the lincolns from the states.

There are still some questions you should ask Lincoln Tech Support such as:

Will the welder, designed to use our three-pole/two phase 230-240 V 60 Hz mains, operate on your two-pole 230 V single phase 50 Hz mains? According to what I've read the Lincoln 210 will also operate on our two-pole single phase 115-120 V 60 Hz mains, though at reduced maximum welding current output.

I note that the manual is also printed in French and Spanish, and since France and Spain use 230-240 V mains at 50Hz it may be that the only thing you will need is a simple outlet adapter, suitably rated of course to handle the load.

If not, how much will you need to spend on an appropriate transformer?

Are accessories available in Australia? If not you should buy consumables such as wire feeder rollers, contactors, gas nozzles, liners and so on when you purchase the welder.

The welder apparently comes with a MIG gun and ground lead, thus you may want to purchase a stinger for stick and a TIG torch too.

The machine will take wire rolls up to the 25 lb. steel size, is that size available to you at home? It will also use smaller rolls.

If you're going to do mild steel welding primarily I suggest you stick with CO₂ shielding. Would it make sense for you to purchase a dedicated gas regulator for CO2 such as

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CO2-REGULATO...item2a454fa84f

or if you're going to do higher duty cycles or will be operating at lower ambient temperatures something like

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Victor-sr312...item2a46dcce7f

or do you want to go with an adapter so that you can use an argon regulator that is included with the welder at more modest flow rates?

If you don't already have a helmet I strongly recommend the 3M Speedglass products. Here is an entry level:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3M-HORNELL-S...item53e5eb41dc

But these are nicer to use because of a wider field of view and features like a flip up filter:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3M-Industria...item4189426466

If you need or want it you can also get one equipped with a respirator or powered air filter unit.

And remember: Buy the best and only cry once.

Cheers,
Rob

As much as I love Lincoln gear, I probably wouldn't bring one back from the states. I would be very surprised if the three year warranty was honoured in Australia and your local Lincoln repair agent will most probably not be of a mind to be too helpful. Spare parts could also be a difficulty in the future because stock could well be in America only.
As far as I can tell, the machine should run okay on our power as it is only single phase 230V albeit at a 20% different frequency which could cause fans to run slower etc.
It wouldn't surprise me if Lincoln release a similar model here shortly.
One other point that may be worth knowing is that many of the Power xx xx xx xx xx range of Lincoln machines are made in China to keep costs down. Not rubbish by any means, but not necessarily the American/Australian made machine you once were guaranteed.