Thread: $$$$ please tell me these electrodes are just brilliant

Hi Beefy
I'll agree that's expensive and I believe 12 p's are a good electrode and better than Cigweld's offering, but not 2 times or 3 times as good.

Because of the smaller diameter manufacturers charge more. Theres more electrodes to the kilo ( say rather than 2.5 diam for instance) so they figure you should pay more.

There Stainless steel electrodes in that diameter are actually cheaper than Austarc 12P s- I just checked the price On Mans Toyshop in Rocky and 2mm stainless were way cheaper.

I have used those Austarc 12P electrodes in 2.5 diameter but not in 2 mm.

If I were to make a guess, I would say the Austarc 12 P electrodes are Aussie or Kiwi made and the Cigweld's are Asian made and imported in volume and boxed here. The price difference may well be in Manufacture and wage costs.

Good electrodes yes but certainly not cost effective unless you have a very specific niche use for them and nothing else will satisfy the job requirement.

2mm electrodes may be alright for you younger fellows with decent eyes but today I tried some 2mms on a bit of duragal RHS 50 x 25 x 1.6Wt and beggar me you have to travel like a cut snake and keep the bead on the seem. Not as easy as it once was


Grahame

If you can get them, Murex Speedex 12 in 2.0mm are the cats whiskers and way cheaper than $85.
I've used them on 19x1.15 galv conduit and while fit up etc had to be spot on they were actually quite pleasant to use. DC, 40-45A and 40V if I recall correctly.
I like 12P's, but not at $85.

Thanks for the replies lads.

Just checked the receipt again, it was $88 ($80 + GST) from Migwell in Dandenong. It could be true about the 12P rods being made in Australia. That would explain the 3.5 times the price of the Weldskill rods. No wonder we are buying from overseas when things are this expensive here.

I'll actually look into getting some of those Murex rods too. The 12P rods are supposed to be good for poor fitup so maybe if the Murex rods need a good fitup they are a more penetrating rod ??? I've got some 2.5mm Weldskill rods and I find the slag to be like glue compared to 6013 rods. The 12P rods are supposed to have a forceful arc, maybe that overcomes the more viscous slag (layperson thinking out loud here). I'll have to count how many rods I get in the box so I know how much money I'm melting with each rod LOL.

Yeah I know about the eyes thing. I'm a year off 50 and my super perfect eyesight started its gradual decline at around 40. I was long sighted but had perfect near vision too. What a rude awakening. The tiny things I used to see with ease now need a magnifying glass in addition to my reading glasses. When I'm making circuit boards I use one of those headband magnifiers (+ glasses) when I'm soldering. At least my hands are still nice and steady LOL, could make a real mess with a soldering iron.

That just reminded me, I'll have to see if I can still use my 1.5mm electrodes. I might have to put the magnifying lens on my cheapy Cigweld helmet.

Edit: just done a quick search for the Murex rods. Can't find the 2mm ones, but the 2.5 and 3.2 are ones are available at Supercheap Auto and Bunning too I think.

Originally Posted by beefy

Thanks for the replies lads.

I'll actually look into getting some of those Murex rods too. The 12P rods are supposed to be good for poor fitup so maybe if the Murex rods need a good fitup they are a more penetrating rod ??? I've got some 2.5mm Weldskill rods and I find the slag to be like glue compared to 6013 rods. The 12P rods are supposed to have a forceful arc, maybe that overcomes the more viscous slag (layperson thinking out loud here). I'll have to count how many rods I get in the box so I know how much money I'm melting with each rod LOL.

That just reminded me, I'll have to see if I can still use my 1.5mm electrodes. I might have to put the magnifying lens on my cheapy Cigweld helmet.

Edit: just done a quick search for the Murex rods. Can't find the 2mm ones, but the 2.5 and 3.2 are ones are available at Supercheap Auto and Bunning too I think. I see they are a 6013 rod, not a 6012. Maybe that explains why they need a better fitup, doesn't 6013 penetrate more than 6012.

The Murex electrodes run very similar to the 12P's and the comment about needing good fitup was a function of the 1.15mm material thickness.
If I remember correctly, I got my 2mm Murex rods from Bunnings some years ago. The Murex electrodes went off the market for a while and then suddenly returned, so perhaps the 2mm electrodes haven't returned.
Gemini 12's are worth a look too. http://www.dynaweld.com.au/1051/elec...gemini-12.html

Thanks Karl,

I feel compelled to buy some of those Murex rods now just to see how they compare LOL. Silly thinking, paying more to see if I didn't need to pay so much for the 12P rods. Maybe I'm due for the nuthouse.

I've been trying to recollect a brand I'd been hearing about a year or two ago. I think Gemini are the ones, cheers.

Keith.

Originally Posted by beefy

Thanks Karl,

I feel compelled to buy some of those Murex rods now just to see how they compare LOL. Silly thinking, paying more to see if I didn't need to pay so much for the 12P rods. Maybe I'm due for the nuthouse.

I've been trying to recollect a brand I'd been hearing about a year or two ago. I think Gemini are the ones, cheers.

Keith.

Gemini electrodes have popped up on this forum on several occasions. I've got a packet of Gemini 12 3.2's that seem okay, but I've never really done anything too out of the ordinary with them either.
One of the nicest electrodes I have used were a batch of Chinese electrodes NOT certified to Aust Standards, I must have run a tonne of them, (the place I worked for sold them), the next shipment were certified and they were crap.

Like so many things these days.....ya just cant trust any bugger to do the right thing on price.

Ya realy do have to shop around.

The time when you could just walk in somewhere and say I have a box of those, and not expect to pay over the odds is gone.

There are plenty out there prepared to sell half as many and make twice as much.

Went into the elctrical "wholsalers" and picked up a bottle of BP connectors a while ago....checked the invoice and they had charged be $52 pluss gst.
I returned with sapository intentions.....the bloke behind the counter said..."oh we should have locked in a price for you on those"
Got credit and the price dropped by half.

There are some good prices to be had is you shop well......but there are plenty who will charge well over the odds to those who don't ask and don't know.


likewsie I was looking for some top hat channel to do a job.....I shopped it arround and got a range of prices that where just silly..I chalenged one bloke and he got his boss who looked up the price list, sucked some air thru his teeth and told me what was a " wholeesale price"...yeh right.
I finally got the stuff from a place that did me a good price straight up on brand name material.
some of the places where quoting me $2000 to $2500 for what I wanted...ended up paying about $600.


YEH ya got shop smart.

cheers

Originally Posted by beefy

Thanks Karl,

I feel compelled to buy some of those Murex rods now just to see how they compare LOL. Silly thinking, paying more to see if I didn't need to pay so much for the 12P rods. Maybe I'm due for the nuthouse.

I've been trying to recollect a brand I'd been hearing about a year or two ago. I think Gemini are the ones, cheers.

Keith.

Kieth

You are correct on the Gemini 2mm electrodes. Gemini also have 1.6mm diameter electrode . They run ok but are a sob to keep centered on the weld joint.

Grahame

Originally Posted by Karl Robbers

One of the nicest electrodes I have used were a batch of Chinese electrodes NOT certified to Aust Standards, I must have run a tonne of them, (the place I worked for sold them), the next shipment were certified and they were crap.

That seems to be the consistent feedback I hear about Chinese products, there is no consistency on quality. Seems whatever materials, etc they can just grab at the time, that's what gets used in their product. The other story I hear quite a bit is their samples are not always representative of the mass produced item.

Soundman,

I've noticed the huge prices I often encounter here. I bought my Hypertherm PM1250 plasma cutter from the same shop (as the welding rods) a few years ago. With a basic hand torch only, it cost $6000 AFTER he had tried to charge more and I knocked him down. Actually he'd previously gave me that price of $6K, forgot about it then tried the few hundred extra next time I called and was ready to purchase. Goes to show how they just pick prices out of a hat, based on what they think they can get out of different customers. Later bought the Duramax machine torch from them and paid $1100 just for that.

When you look at the prices for these machines in the States, you really question why we pay thousands extra when they are imported here. One of the main Hypertherm representatives reckons it is mainly markup. After all surely the importers get these items at some trade / wholesaler price to start with.

Originally Posted by Grahame Collins

Kieth

You are correct on the Gemini 2mm electrodes. Gemini also have 1.6mm diameter electrode . They run ok but are a sob to keep centered on the weld joint.

Grahame

Graheme,

do you mean the arc wanders and tries to go to one side or the other of the weld joint ?

Keith.

All too often the chineese are blamed for somethng that realy is not their fault.
Fair go, some of their stuff is inconsistent.....but a lot of the variability can be laid at the feet of the importer.

I have some personal friends and others I speak to, who import from china and they all say the same thing.....The chinese are capable of produciing any level of quality you like...but you have to be prepared to pay for it and you have to run propper contract administration.

All too often people go to china and get greedy, they want to buy as cheap as possible...AND get what they pay for.

One music importer I deal with was telling me he was in the office of one of his reliable electronics suppliers in Tiawan and the CEO was telling him that an american music importer was beating him down for price...this importer was happy with a 30% out of box failure rate as long as the price was low enough.
The suppler told this guy, "we just don't do that sort of work".

Others who deal regularly in china tell me, you need to go to the right factories.....there may be several factories making near identical items....some are better and more consistent than others...some are more reliable and honest business people than others.

I have to say that I've seen quite a bit of chineese electronics that is better built than the stuff we where seeing comming out of US and Australian factories in the 90's.( a period that some consider the peak of western manufacture)



As far as, in particular, American branded stuff is generally well overpriced in the australian market.
It is a combination of the american parrent companies not selling to the australian distributers at anything like US distributer pricing, then the Australian distributers wacking on more margin than is reasonable..THEN the retailers expecting full retail margin because it is an american brand name....where they would not expect the same margin on a generic item of asian or chineese origin.

Sorry but I can not think of a single US branded item that I would buy as a preference.

cheers

Originally Posted by beefy

Graheme,

do you mean the arc wanders and tries to go to one side or the other of the weld joint ?

Keith.

I use those little thin Geminis a bit, the main problem is that they are so thin and whippy, so if the stick grabs a bit when striking an arc, it'll flick across the work. Any hand shake tends to get exaggerated. The fact that you're using lower amps and working on thin base metal also makes everything that bit harder. I use Gemini 12's in all sizes and I reckon they're great value.

Originally Posted by beefy

Graheme,

do you mean the arc wanders and tries to go to one side or the other of the weld joint ?

Keith.

Yes the arc wanders ,but due to the flexibilty of the core wire just as Weldermick has described above ..I ended up cutting some in half to stop that.
I won't use them for anything but a situation when nothing else is suitable.
Same storage as usual a cheap bit of plumbers PVC pipe and a caps on either and a packet of moisture absorbent salts.The sort that comes with medications, some times.