Thread: Can someone post a video of how they can weld thin square tube with a stick welder?

Originally Posted by KBs PensNmore

An 8 week course is nowhere near long enough

I dunno about that, particularly if the student has some prior failures to help focus the mind. In the hands of a good teacher they will very quickly pick up on what is required... then its about practice and motor skills. I guess it depends on what expectations you have at the end of a course as to what skills you'll actually have - sure you won't be a pro after 8 weeks.

These days there are [some] good youtube videos that us old folk just didn't have access to when learning. I think the request for a video was a smart one - it's just a shame that there aren't many good welders who are also good video makers out there!

I've learnt purely from youtube and forums. Some might say that's obvious, but I have fun and produce half decent results

Can someone tell me why the weld seems to jump from the base to the square tube when I ran a bead. I started the bead on the base and ran it all the way along tight against the tube but keeping the rod focused on the base plate. When I removed the flux the weld started on the BASE jumped to the square tube then back to the base when I passed the end of the tube!
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Oh and someone asked what welder I was using.. It's this one Weldsmart 140amp..

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Well im having slightly more succes now that I am trying to weld the full 2mm thick walls of the square tube. If I do a little bit at a time it doesn't seem to burn through as much.

Cheers
Nick

Originally Posted by Njmpm

Can someone tell me why the weld seems to jump from the base to the square tube when I ran a bead. I started the bead on the base and ran it all the way along tight against the tube but keeping the rod focused on the base plate. When I removed the flux the weld started on the BASE jumped to the square tube then back to the base when I passed the end of the tube!
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Cheers
Nick

Hi Nick, I would say that you are holding the electrode away from the metal to be joined, allowing a slight weave/shake, or up a little high. The indicator is that the weld metal is about 8-10 mm wide, and should be about 3-4 mm at the most, using a 2 - 2.5 mm rod, if you were holding it in the V.
Try running the electrode into the V of the metal, and use just a little downward pressure, to let it burn at its own rate. The electrode should be at about 45 degrees toward you, and about 60 degrees pointing to the thicker material. This is what I call "touch welding". Once you get used to the speed at which the electrode burns away, you can then lift the rod away from the V.
Normal deposition of the weld metal, is about 1.5 - 2 times the thickness of the wire in the electrode
I would say that you were holding the rod about 80 - 90 degrees towards you, allowing some of the slag to be encapsulated in the weld. Flux is what is on the electrode, and slag is the by-product of it.
Good Luck and hope this helps
Kryn

Hi Kryn,

Thanks for the reply, obviously I didn't explain myself properly in the last post sorry about that. When I was welding this I actually pretended that the square tube wasn't there at all. I tried to just run a bead like you said, 3mm wide max with no side to side weaving at all. I actually had the rod slanted away from me at an angle of about 50 to 60 deg max and I was aiming it perpendicular to the weld and in no way aiming it at the join or weaving it in anyway. I just tried to lay a bead in a straight line up close to the edge of the square tube just to see what would happen. I didn't expect it to jump over to the square tube!

Any ideas?

Originally Posted by WelderMick

I think the request for a video was a smart one - it's just a shame that there aren't many good welders who are also good video makers out there!

Haha that's what I was thinking
People have quoted drag angles, focus on this, aim it at that.. A lot of the videos I've watched (hundreds) you can absolutely see what angle they are using and where in the join they are aiming, weave pattern etc.. I just didn't realise that as you say, "it's just a shame that there aren't many good welders who are also good video makers out there!"

Ive trawlled the internet looking for this type of weld but can't find one where they are stick welding 2mm tube to flat bar. Now that I have been practicing a little bit (time constraints) I can see it could be done.

Question; as heat is a big factor here for burning through the tube wall can I dunk the piece in water after giving it a little bit of time to cool so I can weld the next section? Maybe three buckets one hot water then one with warm water and the last cool water. Would that make a difference?

Originally Posted by Njmpm

Can someone tell me why the weld seems to jump from the base to the square tube when I ran a bead. I started the bead on the base and ran it all the way along tight against the tube but keeping the rod focused on the base plate. When I removed the flux the weld started on the BASE jumped to the square tube then back to the base when I passed the end of the tube!

Have a look at my last post on page 1. This is the sort of situation I was referring to
- Mick

Originally Posted by Njmpm

Question; as heat is a big factor here for burning through the tube wall can I dunk the piece in water after giving it a little bit of time to cool so I can weld the next section? Maybe three buckets one hot water then one with warm water and the last cool water. Would that make a difference?

Just let it air cool - what's the hurry?

Originally Posted by WelderMick

Just let it air cool - what's the hurry?

No hurry but if I weld one side it doesn't blow through but if I do another side straight away it gets too hot and I start to blow holes in it. Just seemed like a really slow way to weld a bracket, weld one side leave it for half an hour, weld another side and leave that for half an hour.. Etc not sure if I have the patience to spen a couple of hours for one bracket haha

Originally Posted by WelderMick

It is often a problem when stick welding fillets on thin material, in that it is tricky to achieve penetration down into the root of the fillet without burning through the walls of the base metal on either side. The common solution is to turn the amperage down, which then often results in the weld tracking against one side of the fillet or the other - leaving worm trails with slag inclusions.

A good thing to try in this case is:

• leave the amperage up high
• start the weld normally and makes sure the weld is involving both edges of the fillet
• quickly transition to an exaggerated drag angle (say at 45 or even 60 degrees), so that the rod is pointing back more towards the weld than the more typical 20 degrees

This pushes more weld metal into the fillet, reduces the tendency to track on just one side of the fillet, and reduce the risk of burn through on thin material. It also means that it is easier to wrap the corner of the weld to help with a neat tie in for the next weld.

And... if you want practice with manipulating rod angles, get some 2 inch (or less) round tube and start welding it end on to a plate.

Cheers

- Mick

Thanks Mick, I did read it I just didn't realise that the weld could "track" on the square tube when I was just trying to run a bead next to it.

Back to practicing, wind the amps up again and try what you are suggesting. Thanks again mate.

Cheers
Nick

Do two or four brackets at once.

Do you have a compressor? Blow air on it.

Do you have a big block of copper or aluminium? Use it as a heat sink.

If you put it in water, you'll promote flash rust.

It might do Bad Things to the metal to cool it too quickly. I'm not sure, I don't know about metallurgy or tempering or oxidation or (much) about distortion.

Resting between welds is a good idea. I've screwed up too many jobs rushing things.

Position the job so you're welding in a 1F position, maybe with a slight (20-30°) downhill. 2F or more is harder. Position makes a big difference to how heat travels and the effects gravity has.

My theory of the weld going to the thin metal even when the arc isn't aimed at it is based off my experience of soldering, no research and no education. I've always believed it was since molten metal will flow to the most suitably heated surface, the thin material proves to be ideal as it tends to get to that "right" temperature with the arc no focused directly on it, whereas the thicker material can act as a heatsink.

I'm sure one day I'll learn whether my understanding is good or not (angles and amps, I pay no attention to any of that, for me it's all about what's directly in front of me, and how the two surfaces and weld pool are reacting, that's all I understand and know how to work with - Oh, and the sound of the arc too, very important to me!), but for the time being it's holding everything non-structural together

Set the machine hot enough that when you strike
an ark the rod wont stick, then hold a tight ark.
Keep a 90 degree angle.
Stay on the front edge of the molten puddle.
Don't rush the weld.
Keep a tight ark!!