Welding question ? ... Is this dangerous ?

**JDarvall** · 6th March 2006, 04:29 PM

Hello,

What I want to do, is, be able to weld a piece of steel to a file, WITHOUT ruining the files temper.

See, I'm having much success grinding old files into blades. Without harding/tempering I've found these ground files are holding their edge very well....., totally bipassing the blacksmithing stuff.....(Not that I want to avoid hardening and tempering. But I'm somewhat of a novice at blacksmithing, and I feel I've found a cheap alternative to blade creation for the moment).

Anyway, my recent idea requires welding a piece of steel to a sharpened file right up close to the blades edge....have to weld it, cause I can't drill/tap holes into the file in its hard state.

BUT, as you know, theres a high heat build up in welding which will ruin the temper of the blade. SO, I thought, why not suspend the blade end into water to help keep that part cool WHILE welding a piece on above the water as usual...sort of like what I've staged here in the photos. Can I run a bead along those 2 clamped pieces without ruining the temper of the file part thats under the water?

Whats gonna happen ? Is it dangerous, first of all ?....will the water explode or something like ?......I'm guessing it'll be ok. But I thought I should check with the welding blokes.

If its not dangerous, will it stop the part of the blade in the water from getting too hot, anyway ? Maybe I could use iced water instead ?

See, if this method does work, it will open up all sorts of possibilities for me.

Thanks.

(am I being a complete idiot even contemplating this in the first place)

**ozwinner** · 6th March 2006, 04:43 PM

A lot of industrial processes are done that way, with the weldment in water to stop it getting too hot.

As long as the earth is out of the water I cant see a problem.

Al

**Bodgy** · 6th March 2006, 05:43 PM

I had a bloke out once to weld post stirrups to the bases. It had flooded the day before and the water was about ankle deep. Didn't seem to worry him much, he just went ahead and welded them, around 20 I think.

Hence it shouldn't be dangerous, but you must be a better welder than I. I'd stick the stick in seconds then the whole lot would go flying.

Where is Graeme when you need him?

Mr Collins, hello, paging Mr Collins, dilemma for you on line 6...............

**ozwinner** · 6th March 2006, 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by Bodgy

I'd stick the stick in seconds then the whole lot would go flying.

.

You must be useing the wrong rods.
What sort of rods are you useing

Al

**Clinton1** · 6th March 2006, 06:13 PM

welding rods.

Why what other ones are there?

**ozwinner** · 6th March 2006, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by Clinton1

welding rods.

Why what other ones are there?

Curtain rods.
Hot rods.
Poking rods.
Lightning rods.
Rod rods.

And lots more Im sure (ie, go get em fellas)

Al

**MajorPanic** · 6th March 2006, 07:57 PM

Ya doin' it worng!!!!'

The coolant should be petrol

(BOOOOOOMMMM!!!)

(Don't try this at home kids)

**Ashore** · 6th March 2006, 08:19 PM

Tripper they weld underwater on drilling platform supports
But for you keep earth as close to the weld as possible without being in the water, and don't stand in the water while welding

Best shock I ever got off a welder was trying to weld a pipe bracker to the deck in a fair sea and as I was changing a rod, caught a wave soaked me glove rod and ..... zap have always put the face shield down, rest the rod on it and loaded the gun single handed since,

Rgds

**Clinton1** · 6th March 2006, 08:30 PM

Poking rods - I've got one of them.

Jake, how close to the end of the file will you be welding?

**Bodgy** · 6th March 2006, 08:41 PM

Originally Posted by ozwinner

You must be useing the wrong rods.
What sort of rods are you useing

Al

CIG Easy Weld, grey.

I'm doing everything wrong, I know. I do it so infrequently that I've forgotten the skill when the next time comes around.

I'm OK with thick steel, but burn holes in anything less than 3mm.

GC says to use a heat sink, sounds like good advice but yet to try it.

My sobriquet is not Bodgy for nuffink.

**ozwinner** · 6th March 2006, 08:54 PM

Originally Posted by Bodgy

CIG Easy Weld, grey.

I'm doing everything wrong, I know. I do it so infrequently that I've forgotten the skill when the next time comes around.

I'm OK with thick steel, but burn holes in anything less than 3mm.

GC says to use a heat sink, sounds like good advice but yet to try it.

My sobriquet is not Bodgy for nuffink.

Try Satincraft.
Honestly my Grannie could weld with these.

Al

**scooter** · 6th March 2006, 09:26 PM

:eek: Al's Grannie does stick work... :eek:

**Grahame Collins** · 6th March 2006, 09:42 PM

Hi guys,
Sorry I could not get here sooner but the red cape is in the wash.
I assume the problem is the Apricotripper wants to drill the knive (file ) handle for scales or slabs or whatever the wooden thingies on the knife handles are called. He sounds to me, that he has already got half way there to the solution.
What about this idea then?
1......Support the knife (file ) vertically in the water.Hard blade end in water.
2......Heat the area where you want to drill the holes to a cherry red.
3......Allow to cool to room temp.
4......Drill holes as area will now be annealed and soft

Andy Mac might confirm this process if he is around the place.
I have done it TAFE. Annealed one end of the file . Drilled the holes. Heated and quenched the hole area again to a hardness where it could again file steel.It cost the smart &&&& apprentice $20 who bet me that amount that I could not do it. If I get a chance I may do one at school tomorrow.

Apricotripper would of course omit the reheat and quench.

No welding - no electrical scares OK?
Grahame

**Wood Butcher** · 6th March 2006, 09:44 PM

For welding steel like this I think that low hydrogen welding rods would give you the best result. WIA have the Austarc 16TC rods which I have used before and have had good results. BOC also have their SmoothArc 16.

Al, I have used satincraft 13's, they are not a bad rod but the new Smootharc are a lot better!

**Andy Mac** · 6th March 2006, 11:31 PM

I've been lurking on this one....not sure what Jake has in mind, but I don't think its a local soft spot for drilling. Maybe some weird blade for two mouldings 90degrees to each other

...but I think he wants both bits to remain hard, despite the welding. I'd go with the 'Butchers suggestion of low hydrogen rods for a start, but will the water bath keep the rest of the thing cool and therefore hard? My hunch is if the weld has any good penetration and really sinks the heat in, the water will boil on the surface of the piece to be 'saved', losing its thermal benefit. This may alter the temper!?:confused: The other thing that may happen is the creation of an interface with different tempers, and may be a cause of weakness. Its not something I've ever tried, so only speculating...
Learn some heat treatment Apricot Tripper, weld them properly and harden later!!

Cheers,

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