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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
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    Mackay Qld
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    3,466

    Default Why do they do this ?

    Today I was walking through Masters tool section and I spot the wording on the carton.
    Ughhh!!! Pet Hate big time.
    An instant gnashing of teeth and tearing of hair- thats why there is not much left!

    https://www.masters.com.au/product/1...ig-welding-kit.

    It is a contradiction in terms , a travesty of welding terminology, I tell you. Heresy I say!

    A Gasless Mig Welding kit.

    Really Cigweld. I grew up with and trained on Cigweld among other good brands. Talk about a massive let down.

    The Cigweld I knew,taught and trained me through some wonderful information sheets that MIG- was Metal Inert Gas. Gasless was another thing again - Flux Core wire.

    Now because of ignorance and semantics, the once commonly used and understood term is now a commonly grossly mis used term.

    Wether this is to guile unsuspecting newbs into purchasing what they think is a mig, which will do what a mig does, or, woops, just an advertising man's error, I will let you decide.

    I really feel let down down by what was once a wonderful Australian company that contributed a lot back to the industry in so many ways.

    I could tell you a story about apprentices whom I taught, whom we entered in a national fab/welding completion. The students won a trip to Heron island, welding equipment weld training text books, a write up in a national weld fab magazine and a TIG for the Tafe college. Guess which company that was?

    Its a such a big fall for a company I once had a huge respect for.

    I am off for a sulk!

    Grahame

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
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    Mareeba Far Nth Qld
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    Default

    I agree whole heartedly. This problem is pretty much across the board with all trades. The problem stems, I think, from some one, probably in advertising, dreaming up names for gear aimed at the week hobby and weekend renovation warriors and shop assistants for easier recognition and communication. That is seen as the bigger market.
    Jim
    Sometimes in the daily challenges that life gives us, we miss what is really important...

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Canberra
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    Default

    I think its more a case of how the technology has evolved. The MIG process came in, gained acceptance, then flux core wire was added to the repertoire of the basic machine.

    Or it could be the other way around, but the guys on the MIG team had a bigger marketing budget and more mind share and sold more machines, so their nomenclature won over the FCAW machine dudes.

    Maybe it's because "Just MIG it" sounds better than "Just FCAW it".

    Or perhaps it would be better to say the acronym came in, gained acceptance and general usage as a noun - much like ATM machines - and the exact meaning of the acronym disappeared into the english language void of 'don't sweat the details'.

    Maybe it's even because it's easier to describe that way - "Just like MIG but no gas"

    And who calls their stick welder a SMAW welder???

  5. #4
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    Jun 2010
    Location
    Canberra
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    Default

    Meh. To me, the most obvious distinguishing feature of a MIG welder is that's a continuous wire-feed device, as opposed to a sticks-of-metal device. So in essence, MIG stands for wire feed, and it comes in 2 forms, gas and gasless. So when I see gasless MIG, I know exactly what they're offering.

    I'll add that I was in Masters yesterday and and it surprised me that they couldn't offer a better choice of welding machines - maybe a nice inverter stick unit and an inverter MIG - neither are very expensive these days. Then again, their power tool range is all a bit confused - a lot of house-brand Chinese junk mixed in with top-shelf brands, but and inconsistent selection of those good brands across the range of tools.

  6. #5
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    Adelaide
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    Default

    I am a BMW by trade & to be honest, I really wish the name of a Gasless welding machine was so high, or even on my list of things to worry about.

    I am a man filled with envy.
    The fact remains, that 97% of all statistics are made up, yet 87% of the population think they are real.

  7. #6
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    Dec 2005
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    Canberra
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    BMW? Bob Marley and the Wailers? Is that really you, mon?

  8. #7
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    Don't be redonkulous...

    I naturally assumed you would know that I meant
    I am a Luxury Car by trade
    The fact remains, that 97% of all statistics are made up, yet 87% of the population think they are real.

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Sydney,Australia
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    3,157

    Default

    Looks like you have an entry for the ABC show 'The Checkout' for misleading or incorrect labelling. Take a photo, make a short video of yourself telling what is wrong & get on air

  10. #9
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    Jan 2004
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    Mackay Qld
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    Default

    The problem I have with the unit is:

    It is a FCA welder masquerading as a mig

    Even as a FCA welder it is not fit for purpose. Real FCAW machines need accurate voltage settings to reasonably enable tuning.This machine has 2 ,count them,2 voltage steps.
    It is 10 amp rating maxing at 100 amps.

    FCAW machines were not designed to work efficiently with " up to 3mm mild steel " They work well in the real world to deposit high quality beads ,in a short time ,at low cost on heavier plate .
    "Mig" suggests it might be good for sheet metal,car panel panel.The unsuspecting buyer with intention to work on on car panels,may be influenced by the term "mig".

    The machine is almost certainly targeted at a demographic whom may not have a clue about welding machines and will likely be experiencing a lot of trouble with the machine.

    $300 or near for an inverter stick welder is way better value for money.

    Bring back the times when advertising people understood their product and sold it honestly.

    Grahame

  11. #10
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    Ticky,
    I too am an ex BoilerMaker Welder. Having used wire feed machines from the onset.My boss had one of the first ones in Brisbane, a Hobart, bigger than a big refrigerator on 6" steel wheels. Since that time, in forty something years in and around the trade, I have used a lot of Mig and FluxCore wires and well understand the difference between the two.

    I have an over developed sense of fair play. With that, I hate to see anyone who is about to enter the wonderful world of welding, get ripped off by virtue of being sold a welder that is almost unusable for their purposes they hoped to use it for.

    The average battler has little knowledge of welding and for the most part relies upon advertising and information gained from sales people. I would like such information to be at least,accurate .

    There's an unfortunate mindset in that some rank beginners believe that the wire feed system is far easier to learn and use. With the prevalence of inverter machines and Electronic darkening welding shields that is not so much of a problem.

    I hope potential buyers considering such wire feed machines be they MIG or FCAW are now in a better informed position to make a judgement on what to buy.

    Grahame

  12. #11
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    Grahame,
    You are very passionate about your welding & it shows in your posts. More to the point, you are correct in what you say, not only this time, but in all your posts, or at least the ones I have read.

    Me on the other hand, I am a pisstaker. I don't play favourites, I take the out of everybody including my self and my attempts at woodwork.

    Please dont be offended mate, I just choose not to take the life quite so seriously, & I currently have a 16yo daughter learning to drive & finding new and creative ways of parting me and money, boyfriends etc., and normal 16yo girl stuff that most of us have already gone through one or more times before.

    your post made me laugh. no offence intended, I like things that make me laugh. I admire your passion, but we are different.

    Steve
    The fact remains, that 97% of all statistics are made up, yet 87% of the population think they are real.

  13. #12
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    Mar 2013
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    Qld Australia
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    Default

    I would assume it is because from a sales point of view and the fact that most of the customers who buy that sort of machine are not welders, just only people who have the idea that they want/need to weld something. So they come in and say I want a MIG welder because that is what they heard or a mate had told them they need, and by that they mean they would like a welder with a reel of wire as against an arc welder using electrodes.

    Therefore rather giving the newbie a long and time wasting education in the various type of welding processes. It is just easier to say on the box "MIG welder" which uses a reel of flux coated wire, without the need for a gas bottle and regulator which would add to the cost considerably and then the store would be out of a sale. Some of them do have facilities for both but in the more expensive machines. As the saying goes, you get what you pay for.

    A while ago after going into a large hardware store for some welding electrodes, the salesman/team member saw me looking at the el cheapo ones they had and then proceeded to tell me how good they were. So I let him do his sales pitch and when he finished I then told him in my opinion they were crap and only suitable for a boat anchor, due to abysmal duty cycles, next to no voltage control ect. ect. ect. went on for about 8 minutes, gave him an education, he had never welded in his life and that was either his or the companies training that he was spouting. Needless to say I don't think he liked me but I did educate him!

    My brother went the same route, bought a cheapo 140A arc welder and for years struggled with bad welds and spent more time grinding them out then actual welding. I finally convinced him and picked up a much better Inverter pulse TIG/MMA 200A welder off ebay for him, and he has never looked back. Where it used to take him half an hour, it now takes him less than a few minutes, he doesn't use the TIG functions on it but he reckons that the arc welding part of it is great. He didn't know better at the time and thought that cheapo welder was a good deal. Had he been after a "MIG" he probably would have bought the cheapest flux wired one they had, and probably the one you referred to in your first post.

    These cheap welding units do have a place though and if you know what you are doing and can weld, then they can do a good job at a cheap price for light stuff using flux wire, (maybe ).

    Cheers

    Ed.

  14. #13
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    Jul 2009
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    Melbourne
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    Default

    I recon it's the same as the guy going into a shop needing a hole in the wall to fit a bolt. Sell him a drill, drill bit and all the hardware needed. All he wanted was to hang a heavy picture.....

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