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  1. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    Melbourne
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    1,139

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doggie View Post
    Peter

    By orphans I meant one off homeless chisels and not part of a set however I was wrong in that one of them did belong to your fabulous boxed set of four gold decal, swedish patterned handled, bevel firmers(Titan Guaranteed blade stamp)

    In response to your detailed pictorial over five posts I make the following comments

    First Post

    Pic 1 - Looks like a genuine wood handled Titan of pre Swedish pattern design. The opaque surround of the decal is not apparent, neither are the striations we are discussing
    The opaque surround is just visible on both chisels.

    Pic 2 - Very apparent transfer surround and very bright colours on a pristine decal. The coating is crazed but looks very shiny (maybe an overcoating. The striations are evident
    This is one of the boxed set, all original.

    Pic 3- Very early Registered handle (no "white Australia" on the decal) The top ferrule on the lower chisel has been refitted on the handle after damage (down closer to the decal). The decal transfer is very apparent and has a wide overlap. The striations are very apparent on the lower example.
    The second chisel was smacked so hard the hoop has been pushed down a little & damaged the wood

    Pic 4- This appears to be a closer pic of the lower chisel mentioned above. The striations are very evident as is the thin line of coating damage under the top ferrule refit.
    Just damage from use.

    Pic 5- Very obvious striations and transfer surround. The handle appears to have been recoated with varnish.
    The opaque surround can't be there, there is no transfer on that chisel. This one might have been oiled over the years, just a picture of striations.

    Second post

    Pic -6 Shine looks like and over coat over original coating. Spankingley gorgeous gold Titan decal. Striations are evident.
    No over coating, original in the box chisel.

    Pic 7 - Detail of above showing striations.
    No, another chisel from the same box.

    Third Post

    Pic 8 - Striations evident. It looks as if distress damage and borer holes have been over-coated since they were incurred.
    No borer at all, no over coating with anything.

    Pic 9 - As above
    No over coating at all.

    Pic 10 - As above minus borer hole plus, the wood looks different than many Titan Swedish pattern handles have (myrtle beech) - fine grained and light redish brown.
    Original chisel purchased by my father, I know where it was bought inBox Hill, has an original sticky label and no mark on the blade.

    Any way where does that leave us ?


    Point 1 - If the obvious striations are indeed a characteristic of Titan handles as you light heartedly said then no wonder they sold out to Stanley. Quality control rat sh--.

    But as a counter argument I offer the below images of non striation, non doctored original for your consideration.

    Dick
    Dick,
    You might have misunderstood why I put up the pictures of all those chisels. It wasn't at all a request for your judgement on them, it was to show the features you claimed to be faked are just normal for this maker of chisel.

    I also believe strongly that you should have been a bit more cautious in your appraisal of some of the chisel pictures I have posted. You have not actually seen the chisels, and your unsolicited comments on some of them may upset the people I sold them to.

    Although I have not seen it in the flesh, the picture of a chisel you posted in the second post under the heading "Fake photo" does not look at all suspicions to me. It looks consistent with the pictures I have just posted, and also with the boxed set of chisels I know to be original.

    Regards,
    Peter

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  3. #17
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    215

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    Gents,

    I feel that there is enough consistency in the various images and descriptions here of several independent users and collectors of Titans to unconditionally say that I think all the presented chisels here are genuine.

    There are certainly enough about that are clearly hybridized, cleaned inappropriately, or re-handled, to make me think there is a perception of a strong second hand market. I have paid mainly $2 - $20 for 90% of the Titans I own from eBay or in physical markets or garage sales, and I think that all this evidence probably says to me there is no organised effort to mislead with repro stickers or handles as far as I can see.

    Of course this is my opinion. And sometimes my skewed eye needs to be tempered in relation to Titan chisels.

    I agree with your earlier post too Peter - each to their own in how highly the Titans are held. I see Titans for what they are - something that we can claim as our own, from a very different era and society, with no claims they are the best, nor are they the worst, however they are pleasant all the same.

    Nick

  4. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Newcastle NSW
    Posts
    775

    Default

    I think what we have exposed is a verrry large racket in counterfeit titan handles. Clearly it has spread nationwide. I for one do not know what to do, I have 6 titans in my hands and 1 has striations and the other 5 don't.

    Seriously though, I think it is good of Doggie to bring this up, as it may have caused some issues or confusion for people in the future (if/when Titans become a more valuable commodity), of cause the issue with variation is probably going to make these a very hard brand of chisel if you were planning to collect them.

    Cheers,

    Camo

  5. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Murray River, NSW
    Posts
    344

    Default Shop new Titans!!!

    A member of the Hand Tool Preservation Association of Australia (HTPAA) passed through our town a couple of years ago and told another member (a Dr Theo) about Titan chisels and handles hanging in one of our local hardwares. They got me on the case and I went over and photographed them. Here they are in all their glory (or otherwise...)
    3.jpg 1.jpg 2.jpg 4.jpg 5.jpg


    The chisels are all rinky didge original and would have been hanging there since new as it's an out of the way place. Also, now that there are newer chisels hanging next to them, they're probably still there. The prices and blade condition probably don't help either. I bought the chisel handles for Dr Theo but had my Internet provider 'clean up' my account (ie: lost all of my emails) and I never got around to looking him up in the HTPAA member list.

  6. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Victoria
    Posts
    362

    Default Doggie in the window

    Quote Originally Posted by CAG View Post
    A member of the Hand Tool Preservation Association of Australia (HTPAA) passed through our town a couple of years ago and told another member (a Dr Theo) about Titan chisels and handles hanging in one of our local hardwares. They got me on the case and I went over and photographed them. Here they are in all their glory (or otherwise...)
    3.jpg 1.jpg 2.jpg 4.jpg 5.jpg





    The chisels are all rinky didge original and would have been hanging there since new as it's an out of the way place. Also, now that there are newer chisels hanging next to them, they're probably still there. The prices and blade condition probably don't help either. I bought the chisel handles for Dr Theo but had my Internet provider 'clean up' my account (ie: lost all of my emails) and I never got around to looking him up in the HTPAA member list.
    Amazing. Must have been old stock found out the back from forty odd years ago. Just shows how much is still out there awaiting to be unearthed. I'm impressed CAG.

  7. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Murray River, NSW
    Posts
    344

    Default

    There is no 'out the back' in this shop. They would have been hanging in the same area for all of that time, except for the rearranging of stock on the pegboards.

  8. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Victoria
    Posts
    362

    Default Titanic discovery

    Quote Originally Posted by CAG View Post
    There is no 'out the back' in this shop. They would have been hanging in the same area for all of that time, except for the rearranging of stock on the pegboards.
    If they are still there I would love a crack at them Can you PM me the address???

    Hopefully. Doggie

  9. #23
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Murray River, NSW
    Posts
    344

    Default

    PM sent.

  10. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Victoria
    Posts
    362

    Default Titans in the window

    Quote Originally Posted by CAG View Post
    PM sent.
    Thank you CAG. Chased them up. Took two months but got them out of the window. Amazing.

  11. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Victoria
    Posts
    362

    Default Don't say I didn't warn y'awl

    Quote Originally Posted by camoz View Post
    I think what we have exposed is a verrry large racket in counterfeit titan handles. Clearly it has spread nationwide. I for one do not know what to do,

    Camo
    Not in any way professing to be other than reproductions but where will they end up??.

    IMG_1850.jpg

  12. #26
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Tasmania
    Posts
    10

    Default

    This is an interesting post. I am not a collector of Titan chisels nor do I own any, however I picked up these four plastic handles from an estate sale - retired cabinetmaker. Would these be of interest to a collector ?

    James
    Attached Images Attached Images

  13. #27
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Victoria
    Posts
    362

    Default Its about the colour

    Quote Originally Posted by jimmy34 View Post
    Would these be of interest to a collector ? James
    Yes if red maybe if pink. The redder the bedder!

  14. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    vic
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    97

    Default

    I wondered if you'd spotted that lot Doggie I was going to ask but ya looked to busy dealing with customers.

  15. #29
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Victoria
    Posts
    362

    Default Spot it I did

    Quote Originally Posted by scrounger View Post
    I wondered if you'd spotted that lot Doggie .
    Don't know what to think about them Scrounger. There was no attempt by the guy to fool anybody and he was very upfront about them being reproductions and the oval sticker one wasn't to bad a copy. But what happens to them next???? What does the bloke who buys them do with them? Maybe I'm the wrong person to give an opinion being a Titan tragic! Anyway the HTPAA sale was terrific, heaps of punters and great buying. My big take out was our chisel swap. Thanks again Scrounger. Here is a shot of the show.

    July 13.jpg

  16. #30
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Victoria
    Posts
    362

    Default Belated reply

    Quote Originally Posted by nick_b00 View Post
    Doggie,


    - not sure i've ever seen a aftermarket / fake decal. I've seen these done for the Stanley planes in the US, but don't think our Titan's have a market that supports such a venture. Are there some photo examples you have? Nick
    Observe and weep Nick. Have to say the guy selling them was upfront about them being reproductions and there was no hint of deception about what they were but, as I said before. Where do they go next? Or, am I just paranoid (as well as obsessive, mentally unstable and Possessed) - have I left anything out???

    IMG_1850.jpg

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