Beware of fake "antique and vintage" chisels

**Doggie** · 27th February 2013, 12:52 AM

I'm a Titan chisels collector (the darkest of darksiders) and I'm off at the amount of fake tools put up for sale, especially on web sites and auctions. One of the greatest challenges with collecting anything old or antique is being in a position to detect fakes and this is particularly difficult in the case of old chisels. When fakes are mixed in with an enthusiastic but largely ignorant band of keen collectors, partially or wholly uneducated in what is available it is unfortunately all the fraudsters way. In my experience the people who set out to deliberately fake an old tool in order to sell their invented concoction for a higher price is not all that rare and as Titan chisels themselves get rarer as time goes by, more of this will happen and the collector must be on the look out for it. Making fakes even harder to detect is the fact that fraudulent activity has gone on for a long time and the fake tool might itself have been around for twenty years or even more.

To be fair a faked handle (and with the exception of 1/8^th blades it is always the handle) might not have been a deliberately done as many Titan collectors spruce up their examples as a matter of course. This might include turning a new handle similar to the old and even include fitting the old ferrules and hoops. Getting decal transfers made and putting them on the handles is a stretch but I can live with that if it makes you feel good to see them in the rack. What gets me bent is putting these simulacrums up on web sites and inferring they are original and getting forty or fifty dollars more for them from some poor punter who knows no better. And, it happens a lot! Aiding and abetting this activity is the very real fact that there are twenty chisel blades to every collectable handle surviving out there.

My suspicions were first aroused a few years ago by the fact that so many of these original/unused “handles” did not match the blades ie. the decal to blade stamp was a decade apart and yet the chisels were advertised as almost unused. Experience over the years has taught me to look carefully for the signs of fakery and others might like to add their experience to the below list of cautions

Bells should ring when the words new/old stock, rare size, unused are used in the advertisement.
Bells should ring as a matter of course if an isolated (not in a boxed set) chisel handle looks shiny and new with no signs of usage.
The handle decal should match the era of the blade stamp and be the right size.
The decal transfer should not have an opaque outer circle.
The decal should not be absolutely pristine unless the rest of the chisel is too.
There should be a blade stamp on the front of the blade (the “up” side) except on bevel edged 1/8^th, ¼ and 3/8^th chisels
The state of the handle should match the blade in general condition ie pristine handle = pristine blade
The handle wood and coating should be a consistent colour with appropriate dings and scrapes commensurate with age and light usage and storage
The handle coating finish should be satinish, not glossy and may be slightly crazed
There should be no horizontal sanding striations (consistent with refurbishment), especially those that travel under the decal
The handle should be formed properly consistent with the turning design of similar era chisels
The ferrules should not be metallic shiny and retain the proper patina

This whinge is written in the full knowledge that the darkness of collecting future antiques (the oldest Titan is not 70 years old) does not appeal to all.

**nick_b00** · 27th February 2013, 08:24 AM

Doggie,

A very helpful and interesting post. I too have seen and am frustrated by the many of the examples you discuss, whereby "hybrids" turn up advertised as something special.

However there are a few points I'll pass a comment on:

- not sure i've ever seen a aftermarket / fake decal. I've seen these done for the Stanley planes in the US, but don't think our Titan's have a market that supports such a venture. Are there some photo examples you have?
- "Bells should ring when the words new/old stock, rare size, unused are used in the advertisement." I have seen enough that are old unused high school stock or from elsewhere with the original grind and grease to disagree. That and the fact that some sizes are rare and should be advertised as such - eg 2" Blue plastic handled, the 2" bevelled edge, 7/8" of any type, etc.
- the oldest Titan chisels are likely now 63-64 years old, I'll conceded I occasionally see that people advertise them as early 1900s
- about the decal not matching the blade stamp, my impression is that old stock blades (and therefore stamps) may have been used up as new handle or decal designs came in. Loose blades are common, I'll agree, and so I suppose the temptation is to add any old handle. If you look at the Stanley yellow and black plastic handled firmers that came out in the 70s they look exactly like the Titan firmers - likely because they were, just as I'm sure Stanley used up the Titan stock - only adding their omnipotent yellow plastic handles and blade stamp.

I think the other things I've come to realise about Titan chisels is that these chisels were commonplace in the 50's to 70's, were widely misused and abused by steel faced devices designed to drive nails, perhaps aren't as highly tuned, finished, or as highly quality controlled as a Harold and Saxon, and are getting more expensive - but I love them none the less! Its good to hear from a fellow Titan tragic.

Nick

**Doggie** · 27th February 2013, 10:14 AM

Nick

The attached photo shows sanding marks (from spinning the handle with sandpaper to clean it up) which travel under the decal transfer. You can also see the transfer overlap (opaque surround). I have seen these examples on the Helios decal (no "White Australia" under) and subsequent decals ("White Australia" under and the Titan in gold decals. I'm sure the lady in the trove archive photo of these handles being made in Hobart in the fifties did not leave these marks. Nor did the transfer in original handles have the opaque surround. It looks like a "Bankok special" to me. I have seen this on many, many handles.

DickSanding marks under transfer.jpg

**wheelinround** · 27th February 2013, 11:28 AM

This is a an interesting point thanks for this.

May I ask was it possible to buy handles for chisels seperate with logos on them of manufactures? If so could this not be how/why some older chisels have newer handles?

Bit like fitting a newer plane cap to and older plane, people were more inclined to get them working again than worrying about how it looked.

**Doggie** · 27th February 2013, 12:26 PM

There are many reasons why older chisels have newer handles and retro replacement from the manufacturer is one of them however, as a collector it is my quest to be as time/era faithful as possible in both handle and blade to the original. One eye is always also cocked towards eventual antique status which means 100 years old and basically unadulterated from the original (given age and a bit of wear and tear). In other words "Good +" as a collector rating.

The point of my first post was how fake handles stuff this quest around and make you very wary. An original manufacturers replacement handle is excellent if it is roughly the same vintage as the blade stamp. The reason why fakes have been so prevalent of late is because of the profit in it for the fraudsters. For example: cost of old Titan at boot sale - $3. Take home, wire wheel blade, remove crappy handle, save ferrules and hoops if OK, sand off or turn up a new one from similar wood, stick on Bankok made decal ($10 for a thousand at any back street print shop), estapol, put ferrules/hoops and handle back on, Put on net, sell for $40/50 plus postage. Do this a lot.

Do the math.

Doggie

**wheelinround** · 27th February 2013, 12:45 PM

I agree with your sentiment on the whole basis.

I was asking more than making a statement. Thanks for the reply. I recall seeing sole new handles in hardware stores of years gone by with logos of manufacturers on them.

In day gone by when what are now collectors items were originally how a man made his daily bread. To earn that he would have rather than stuck them in a glass show case had them in a carry all bag wrapped in anything from newspaper to old rags lucky ones had leather pouches then the bag swung over his shoulder on his way to work via his own two feet, pushbike, public transport or back of a lorry.

For those lucky enough to have had their own workshop and have cabinets etc to store tools in they were treasured but not as collectors items.

The forging of steel is proving to also become harder and hard to define as original or fake.

**camoz** · 27th February 2013, 06:12 PM

Wow, you learn something new every day, thanks for the heads up. One of my main attractions to Titan at the moment, is that (at least to me) they are a good chisel, but don't break the bank when I buy them. Not being a collector, the chisels I have, I am fairly sure are not with original handles (they are with Titan handles, well at least I thought so, but I would bet they have been made up by matching a good blade with a good handle). It honestly had not occurred to me to start taking a closer look at the handles like that, but I guess it makes sense, if you are going to counterfeit a bank note, you probably aren’t going to do it with a $100 bill (too much chance people will have a really close look at it).

Cheers,

Camo

**lightwood** · 1st March 2013, 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by Doggie

Nick

The attached photo shows sanding marks (from spinning the handle with sandpaper to clean it up) which travel under the decal transfer. You can also see the transfer overlap (opaque surround). I have seen these examples on the Helios decal (no "White Australia" under) and subsequent decals ("White Australia" under and the Titan in gold decals. I'm sure the lady in the trove archive photo of these handles being made in Hobart in the fifties did not leave these marks. Nor did the transfer in original handles have the opaque surround. It looks like a "Bankok special" to me. I have seen this on many, many handles.

DickSanding marks under transfer.jpg

Hello Dick,
It took me a few days to dig out the Titan chisels.
I've started to get stuff out to fill the tables at our next HTPAA tool sale in Mid March.
I think I have good news for you!
I believe you are looking at original handles with striations from the original making process, and original decals.
Here are pictures of some of the chisels I have, some I've sold on this forum, and some from a mate. All of them were found in the wild, some in the original box, some from garage/shed clear-outs, and some from market stalls. None from anyone who would be looking to make a huge profit from a $2 - $10 sale price. No refurbishment at all.
Regards,
Peter

**YarrD** · 1st March 2013, 09:34 AM

Reading this thread, I did not realise Titan chisels collectable. See pic. I ran up to my shed to dig these out that I got from my grandfather. Most of my chisels are the epoxy handled Stanley's and I never took much notice or used the Titans. Never thought they were worth anything. I have kept them sharp and in the process polished patina off ferrules. I won't do that now.

**lightwood** · 1st March 2013, 09:59 AM

Originally Posted by YarrD

Reading this thread, I did not realise Titan chisels collectable. See pic. I ran up to my shed to dig these out that I got from my grandfather. Most of my chisels are the epoxy handled Stanley's and I never took much notice or used the Titans. Never thought they were worth anything. I have kept them sharp and in the process polished patina off ferrules. I won't do that now.

Yarrd,
opinions will vary wildly, but I would encourage you to keep doing what you are doing.
I'm not a collector of Titan chisels...unless I see them available cheaply...and they are in their original box.

I collect plenty of chisels, but the Titans don't get me all that exited. Others find the study of their history fascinating, just as I find the study of those made by....say...Mathieson, Glasgow very interesting. Horses for courses.
However...I will still encourage anyone who uses a Mathieson chisel to likewise keep using it, if that is what they want to do.
If I thought those boxed Titan chisels were the best chisels in my possession, I wouldn't hesitate to take them out of the box and use them. Chisels that work well are a beautiful thing, and a few dollars here or there is insignificant in my mind, if I find a great tool to use. EVEN with some of the most valuable things in my collection, it wouldn't bother me to see them being used by someone who knows what they are doing, and has some knowledge and respect for the tool. Seems to me "collectors" get typecast into a certain pattern of behavior. I know that for a fact, as some pretty vile things have been said about, and to me....even by members of this forum.

Regards,
Peter

**Doggie** · 1st March 2013, 10:37 AM

Peter

Could we have a close up of one of the chisels out of your boxed set ?? They look very genuine and might be a comparison with the orphans you posted

Dick

**lightwood** · 1st March 2013, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by Doggie

Peter

Could we have a close up of one of the chisels out of your boxed set ?? They look very genuine and might be a comparison with the orphans you posted

Dick

Dick,
"orphans"

I'm not certain what you mean there.
I'm no less than 100% certain that all the chisels I posted pictures of previously are "genuine" un-messed-with Titan chisels.
I know where they came from, and am entirely convinced they are original. They are a variety of ages, types and conditions. They came into my hands from 6 different sources over a period of 12 hours to 40 years ago. A good sample to study perhaps?

One of the pictures above is from that boxed set.
Here it is again, and another showing the striations under the finish.

Regards,
Peter

**lightwood** · 1st March 2013, 12:23 PM

Just remembered...there are 3 more in a wooden box right next to my desk

These ones were bought new by my dad, or grandfather.
Given to me a few years ago, in the chest. I used these when I was kid.

More striations....
The last one I know was my Dad's because I used it to make the hand grip in this thing when I was 12 years old. Interesting that one, a gouge, has no mark on the blade, only a sticky label on the handle.
Seems to me, striations on Titan chisels is a universal identifying feature.

Regards,
Peter

**Doggie** · 1st March 2013, 02:52 PM

Peter

By orphans I meant one off homeless chisels and not part of a set however I was wrong in that one of them did belong to your fabulous boxed set of four gold decal, swedish patterned handled, bevel firmers(Titan Guaranteed blade stamp)

In response to your detailed pictorial over five posts I make the following comments

First Post

Pic 1 - Looks like a genuine wood handled Titan of pre Swedish pattern design. The opaque surround of the decal is not apparent, neither are the striations we are discussing

Pic 2 - Very apparent transfer surround and very bright colours on a pristine decal. The coating is crazed but looks very shiny (maybe an overcoating. The striations are evident

Pic 3- Very early Registered handle (no "white Australia" on the decal) The top ferrule on the lower chisel has been refitted on the handle after damage (down closer to the decal). The decal transfer is very apparent and has a wide overlap. The striations are very apparent on the lower example.

Pic 4- This appears to be a closer pic of the lower chisel mentioned above. The striations are very evident as is the thin line of coating damage under the top ferrule refit.

Pic 5- Very obvious striations and transfer surround. The handle appears to have been recoated with varnish.

Second post

Pic -6 Shine looks like and over coat over original coating. Spankingley gorgeous gold Titan decal. Striations are evident.

Pic 7 - Detail of above showing striations.

Third Post

Pic 8 - Striations evident. It looks as if distress damage and borer holes have been over-coated since they were incurred.

Pic 9 - As above

Pic 10 - As above minus borer hole plus, the wood looks different than many Titan Swedish pattern handles have (myrtle beech) - fine grained and light redish brown.

Any way where does that leave us ?

Point 1 - If the obvious striations are indeed a characteristic of Titan handles as you light heartedly said then no wonder they sold out to Stanley. Quality control rat sh--.

But as a counter argument I offer the below images of non striation, non doctored original for your consideration.

Dick

**nick_b00** · 1st March 2013, 03:56 PM

Here are a few of my examples:

These chisels are from 4 separate sources. 2 sources are separate ebay sellers, one is the recent Toowoomba swap meet, and another is a garage sale.

IMG_9609.jpg

The "onion" style handle of the socket butt:

IMG_9610.jpg

A 1/8" firmer:

IMG_9611.jpg

A few gouges:

IMG_9612.jpg IMG_9613.jpg IMG_9614.jpg IMG_9615.jpg

Most have been lightly struck only. I'm certain one or two not at all:

IMG_9616.jpg

Nick

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