Thread: DawnPost Drill - Dating Versions

Originally Posted by mspil

I have never taken the handle off. I will have a look tomorrow and report back.

I have now had a look at this mechanism. The fixing device is a split pin.. I found also that the handle fits through a 'T' shaped slot, sitting in the top bar of the 'T'. The tail of the 'T' is there to enable access to the split pin. The photos may make this a little clearer, though it was difficult to get enough light to the split pin itself.

Originally Posted by mspil

I have now had a look at this mechanism. The fixing device is a split pin.. I found also that the handle fits through a 'T' shaped slot, sitting in the top bar of the 'T'. The tail of the 'T' is there to enable access to the split pin. The photos may make this a little clearer, though it was difficult to get enough light to the split pin itself.

Thanks for that. Mine only has the lever section of the slot no T.

Still haven't found another bolted Dawn!

Originally Posted by DSEL74

Another point of difference is in the cams. There is a solid cam with a single handle slot and a huge flathead screw/bolt fixing, or a extending spiral cam with a T- handle slot allowing for the removal of a split pin fixing.

Cam_3915.jpg
"solid cam with a single handle slot and a huge flathead screw/bolt fixing"

Pivot & Cam.jpgDrive Cog.jpg
"or a extending spiral cam with a T-handle slot allowing for the removal of a split pin fixing" (photo of mine this time - with washer and split pin removed).

And a third variation...
mslip drive cog.jpg a solid cam with a T-handle slot and split pin fixing (mspil's).

So, I'd hazzard a guess that mspil's is a transitional model. But were they moving from solid cam and bolt, to tailed cam and split pin, or vice-versa?

Originally Posted by DSEL74

Still haven't found another bolted Dawn!

I'm not quite sure what you mean. Can you post a picture of the bolted part?

And finally, a pikkie of my "knobless" feed wheel handle, and "knobbed" pawl (apologies for poor focus).
Feed Wheel & Pawl.jpg

Cheers, Vann.

Originally Posted by DSEL74
Still haven't found another bolted Dawn!



I'm not quite sure what you mean. Can you post a picture of the bolted part?


I was referring to the cam.


"solid cam with a single handle slot and a huge flathead screw/bolt fixing"

So, I'd hazzard a guess that mspil's is a transitional model. But were they moving from solid cam and bolt, to tailed cam and split pin, or vice-versa?

I would say mine is the oldest, mspil's is a transitional, "tailed cam and split pin" the most recent design. As that is progressive otherwise they changed from pin to bolt and back to pin.
We know the solid cam is older then the tailed one.

Originally Posted by DSEL74

Still haven't found another bolted Dawn!

I'm not quite sure what you mean. Can you post a picture of the bolted part?

I was referring to the cam..

my bad.

Originally Posted by DSEL74

I would say mine is the oldest, mspil's is a transitional, "tailed cam and split pin" the most recent design. As that is progressive otherwise they changed from pin to bolt and back to pin.

I was thinking bolt to pin to pin, or pin to pin to bolt. But I agree that bolt and solid cam, to pin and solid cam, to pin and tailed cam is more likely. They probably copied Buffalo Forge or someone similar and then modified the design over the years the drill was in production.

Another variation:
DSEL Spoked Feed Wheel1.jpg
Spoked feed wheel (DSEL74's) and...

Feed Wheel & Pawl.jpg
Solid feed wheel (mine).

Cheers, Vann.

Originally Posted by Vann

Another variation:
DSEL Spoked Feed Wheel1.jpg
Spoked feed wheel (DSEL74's) and...

Feed Wheel & Pawl.jpg
Solid feed wheel (mine).

Cheers, Vann.

That's one I hadn't noticed, the spokes on the feed wheel. Notice also the handle on mine has the hole where the ball end screws in. ( I have removed it to clean).

The large fly wheel on the early ones are round in profile, later have finger groove, don't know if there is any variation in spokes.

Dawn Prt3010.jpg
Above you can see the top of the casting the lug is different the newer ones on the right are at an angle and the older version far right is flat.

Also on the feed screw nut sleeve, the old one has the A on it, the newer ones have a solid section on the side also the addition of the lubrication holes.

You can't really se it here in this photo but the boss changes in shape and length.



Dawn Prt3040.jpg
Variations in cams and fixings

Dawn Prt308.jpg
Ok you can see on the left the boss is shorter and on the right it extends further inside the wheel.
It's not just the angle I noticed before I took the photo.

Dawn Prt301.jpg
Shot of the cam slot straight both sides no T slot.




Although there are a number of differences still no way to actually date when the appeared.

Originally Posted by DSEL74

The cam with solid edge indicates it is an earlier model, although it does have bearings. So I am not sure which predates the other or if there was a cross over period.

Are you saying yours has a ball bearing thrust bearing in the feed/spindle coupler (your piece marked "A")?

Mine, which has the tailed cam and T slot, and is therefore said to be a later model, does not have a ball bearing race, but just two steel washers with a fibre washer between forming a thrust bearing. Could we possibly be wrong - is it possible that the solid cam and slotted bolt is the newer arrangement?????

What do you have in the couplers of your other two Dawn 611s?

Any chance of a photo of a thrust bearing race?

Originally Posted by DSEL74

More I find out the more questions rather than answers I end up with???????

Heh, heh

Cheers, Vann.

ps I still haven't attempted to remove the slotted bolt on my CanB&F 61 - I must get on to that.

Originally Posted by Vann

Are you saying yours has a ball bearing thrust bearing in the feed/spindle coupler (your piece marked "A")?

Mine, which has the tailed cam and T slot, and is therefore said to be a later model, does not have a ball bearing race, but just two steel washers with a fibre washer between forming a thrust bearing. Could we possibly be wrong - is it possible that the solid cam and slotted bolt is the newer arrangement?????

What do you have in the couplers of your other two Dawn 611s?

Any chance of a photo of a thrust bearing race?

Heh, heh

Cheers, Vann.

ps I still haven't attempted to remove the slotted bolt on my CanB&F 61 - I must get on to that.

I don't exactly know what the bearing looked like assembled it was also stuck together and when it came apart suddenly the bearing flew everywhere. But From memeror there were two half washers and two flat discs plus the loose ball bearings. It is in a jar of molasses at the moment.Feedscrew thrust bearin spindle chuck.jpg Same as this but with balls lol.

I haven't pulled any others apart as yet so not to get the bits mixed.

The bearings I believe are available of the shelf and were a regular "upgrade" as they just swap in, I'm told.

From what I have seen and read including the info I was sent says that the solid cam ones came first.

Found out about a Dawn 600 today and had a look it is in really good condition with original decals but they wanted a bit too much for it and I can't afford it at the moment. I would have liked it and maybe sold one of the 611s.


Dawn 600.jpg

Originally Posted by DSEL74

I don't exactly know what the bearing looked like assembled it was also stuck together and when it came apart suddenly the bearing flew everywhere. But From memeror there were two half washers and two flat discs plus the loose ball bearings. It is in a jar of molasses at the moment.Feedscrew thrust bearin spindle chuck.jpg Same as this but with balls lol.

I haven't pulled any others apart as yet so not to get the bits mixed.

The bearings I believe are available of the shelf and were a regular "upgrade" as they just swap in, I'm told.

From what I have seen and read including the info I was sent says that the solid cam ones came first.

Found out about a Dawn 600 today and had a look it is in really good condition with original decals but they wanted a bit too much for it and I can't afford it at the moment. I would have liked it and maybe sold one of the 611s.


Dawn 600.jpg

Hi. Hope you don`t mind my asking but how much would you expect to pay for something in reasonable condition?

Regards
Ross

Originally Posted by 2blast67

Hi. Hope you don`t mind my asking but how much would you expect to pay for something in reasonable condition?

Regards
Ross

How much for the little 600? It was more a case of what is the most I can afford to offer to save one of the little beasties. Like I have said before what is a lot to me may be a little to someone else in a better situation. The 600 it isn't as desirable in a few ways, It doesn't look as good, so isn't as decorative a "mantique" for the wall, it needs bench mounting, and isn't a self feeding model and is smaller. It originally was sold cheaper as a light weight option.

The 611, I have seen sell for over $150, and as low as $30. Some people were just given them from the farm shed.

If some one is offering me one I am looking on the low end because it is all I could afford and that would have to be on a good week. Also remember it is a limited market because most people don't use them or rarely in favour of a powered tool and therefore are really just a decorative luxury item over a necessity. I bought mine to use, and I love old machinery but again can't afford to buy the big machines nor the space for them so I decided to get it on the bottom end.


The one I saw (600) was in good original condition except for the base was lightly rusted, (been sitting on the floor) and the top wall mount was missing (nice to have if using). The main casting and parts were in good condition. I'd put it in the lower value range of the 611 so $15-75.


I know a long winded answer but I really guess I'm trying to say the $ Value is really in the mind and dependant on the situation of the buyer. Not so much a book valued item.

Originally Posted by DSEL74

How much for the little 600? It was more a case of what is the most I can afford to offer to save one of the little beasties. Like I have said before what is a lot to me may be a little to someone else in a better situation. The 600 it isn't as desirable in a few ways, It doesn't look as good, so isn't as decorative a "mantique" for the wall, it needs bench mounting, and isn't a self feeding model and is smaller. It originally was sold cheaper as a light weight option.

The 611, I have seen sell for over $150, and as low as $30. Some people were just given them from the farm shed.

If some one is offering me one I am looking on the low end because it is all I could afford and that would have to be on a good week. Also remember it is a limited market because most people don't use them or rarely in favour of a powered tool and therefore are really just a decorative luxury item over a necessity. I bought mine to use, and I love old machinery but again can't afford to buy the big machines nor the space for them so I decided to get it on the bottom end.


The one I saw (600) was in good original condition except for the base was lightly rusted, (been sitting on the floor) and the top wall mount was missing (nice to have if using). The main casting and parts were in good condition. I'd put it in the lower value range of the 611 so $15-75.


I know a long winded answer but I really guess I'm trying to say the $ Value is really in the mind and dependant on the situation of the buyer. Not so much a book valued item.

Thanks appreciate that. There seems to be a lot of interest in these.
I have something like this in the shed I picked up a while ago with the thought of restoring it some day. It appears to have a belt drive system on it though. will have to dig it out and have a closer look.

Originally Posted by 2blast67

Thanks appreciate that. There seems to be a lot of interest in these.
I have something like this in the shed I picked up a while ago with the thought of restoring it some day. It appears to have a belt drive system on it though. will have to dig it out and have a closer look.

Photos, Photos, Photos you must provide Photos!!!! Get the Hint?
I'm trying to get the most info I can on them. There was a belt drive option on the 611. According to the McPhearsons catalogue it wasn't a separate model but the belt drive was an "upon order" item. Which means at the time of order you could request it to come with the belt drive. I think it had two wheels for the belt, one for drive and the second to hold the belt off tension. Love to able to get confirmation on this.

It also of course may be an import and not a local Dawn model. The are a number of Canadian Blower, and Silvers, etc post drills around. Which are often a bit more decorative with wavy spoked wheels and more elegantly shaped body castings.