Thread: Should I ask for files in July

Matt,

well aren't you a lucky bugga, is this your first 2 man cross cut saw?

how long is the blade?

if you are asking for files to sharpen this fella, cant saw files are ideal
but they are hard to find.

Graham.

Originally Posted by macg

Matt,

well aren't you a lucky bugga, is this your first 2 man cross cut saw?

how long is the blade?

if you are asking for files to sharpen this fella, cant saw files are ideal
but they are hard to find.

Graham.

Graham,
I putt some more details up later
It is my first off this kind,of two man cross cut saw yes.
Cant saw files ??

Cant saw files have a shallower angle than the 60 deg triangular files and indeed are used for sharpening the large crosscut saws, but I don't think that is all tooth profiles. Your saw looks to me from the pix to be a 60 deg tooth angle with a rather enlarged and rounded gullet, which I suspect is the result of the wrong file being used. This site , which I only found today when looking for a pic of a cant saw file, seems to have a lot of file information.

https://www.wonkeedonkeetools.co.uk/...web-saw-files/

The cant saw file is used where the teeth are at a sharper angle than 60 degs. Typically they will be part of the "M" profile and probably be interspersed with raker teeth. Your saw has a simple profile and what looks to be teeth as a 60 deg angle. You can check by placing you largest triangular file at right angles to the plate to see if it fits. The rounded gullet may cause you some difficulty there and you will either have to file a tooth perhaps at the handle end or just "interpret."

This is a similar saw of mine, but note how much longer the teeth are and how a trianular file does not fit. This saw requires a cant saw file.

P1040750 (Medium).JPGP1040751 (Medium).JPGP1040752 (Medium).JPG

I suspect this type of file is what you need. It is a 10" regular taper and placed next to a 7" DEST for comparisson

P1040753 (Medium).JPG

Of course, I have no expertise in this area so I may have got it all completely wrong. It is just my supposition going from the pix. Having said all this I dug up a couple of saws from Simonds 1919 catalogue (no significance in the date. It was just the first catalogue that came to hand).

P1040754 (Medium).JPGP1040755 (Medium).JPG

and in the Bay State range (made by Simonds)

P1040756 (Medium).JPGP1040757 (Medium).JPG

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

Cant saw files have a shallower angle than the 60 deg triangular files and indeed are used for sharpening the large crosscut saws, but I don't think that is all tooth profiles. Your saw looks to me from the pix to be a 60 deg tooth angle with a rather enlarged and rounded gullet, which I suspect is the result of the wrong file being used. This site , which I only found today when looking for a pic of a cant saw file, seems to have a lot of file information.

https://www.wonkeedonkeetools.co.uk/...web-saw-files/

The cant saw file is used where the teeth are at a sharper angle than 60 degs. Typically they will be part of the "M" profile and probably be interspersed with raker teeth. Your saw has a simple profile and what looks to be teeth as a 60 deg angle. You can check by placing you largest triangular file at right angles to the plate to see if it fits. The rounded gullet may cause you some difficulty there and you will either have to file a tooth perhaps at the handle end or just "interpret."

This is a similar saw of mine, but note how much longer the teeth are and how a trianular file does not fit. This saw requires a cant saw file.

P1040750 (Medium).JPGP1040751 (Medium).JPGP1040752 (Medium).JPG

I suspect this type of file is what you need. It is a 10" regular taper and placed next to a 7" DEST for comparisson

P1040753 (Medium).JPG

Of course, I have no expertise in this area so I may have got it all completely wrong. It is just my supposition going from the pix. Having said all this I dug up a couple of saws from Simonds 1919 catalogue (no significance in the date. It was just the first catalogue that came to hand).

P1040754 (Medium).JPGP1040755 (Medium).JPG

and in the Bay State range (made by Simonds)

P1040756 (Medium).JPGP1040757 (Medium).JPG

Regards
Paul

Paul,
What can I say, you have once again shown your worth.
I on the other hand, walked into my large human melting oven, lost a couple of KG and walked out in disgust.

See our tomorrow goes [emoji3062][emoji3062][emoji3062]

Cheers Matt,

Matt

If the pic you posted is the correct profile, this file might be more appropriate:

(They are going to be thumbnails at the foot of the post on the computer I am using!!)

The file is 8" long and 18mm wide.

Regards
Paul

Paul,
Thank you, for yet more information, also thank you for your PM email,(Sally’s response”what have you brought now” me I’ve done nothing [emoji849][emoji849])

Some more promised info, the other night I had a little scrub on the saw there’s an etch, well there was one I will try later and see if I can reveal more but for now someone may reconise it.

The saw blade length is 1527 mm [emoji849] ok 60 inches for you older folk.



The handle on this end has a habit of dropping out [emoji849].

This I think is farmers Bobs fix 101,has a strange green felt washed kind of thing there.

I would also assume tho I hate that word that the saw was sharpened by a less than experience yet keen hand.
One last note while I had my family’s attention on saws approximately 12 seconds because they were being Xmas generous, I was able to get a reasonable ring from the plate with my knuckles?.

Cheers Matt.

Reading back through the thread
Paul yes, teeth are filed to 60 degrees.


Also note point I’ve narrowed down the previous owner to being possibly Victoria born and a Collingwood supporter(I am one too, just lol)

Hi Matt,

I have a few of this type of saw, with various tooth patterns, but this is all about the plain or peg tooth pattern.

From the reading and research I've done I offer the following as my two bobs worth to the mix.

Back when houses needed a lot of fire wood for not only heating but also for cooking and heating water for washing
these two man saws were a very common item in most house holds, and the plain tooth would have been one of the
easier types to maintain by the average man of the house, which is why today we see examples like Matts and Pauls
show up with, wonky teeth of various shape, size, angle and set.

If a cant saw file was not available, an ordinary mill file could and more often would be used, but after being 'sharpened' several
times the gullets would become enlarged and the tooth angles would also alter, to the point that it would be a real pain in the ar..e
to use and the saw would get put away in blistered disgust, hoping to never to be seen again.

The example in the pictures below is one I picked up several years ago, it is a 48" 2 man saw with two and a half ppi plain teeth,
one handle bracket was always fixed with rivets the other with bolts and wing nuts, so if the saw was ever used for felling a tree
and it was not able to be backed out of the cut the handle could be removed and the saw pulled out through the side of the cut.

It has not had a lot of use or been sharpened too much but because a flat mill file was used the teeth have lost their original edge,
the gullets are starting to become enlarged and the combined angle is now 43 degrees.

Getting back to your saw Matt, it is a pity about the broken teeth, could have happened when being set, the reference to Collingwood
went right over my head, the saw has cleaned up okay, I reckon I've seen that etch somewhere before, I will see if I can find it.

Paul, I love the 4 brass backed back saws that just happened to be on the bench when you photographed your two man saw.

Graham.

Hi Matt,

Once again the saw pictured below is one that I picked up several years ago,

This one is a 54" one man saw with 2 ppi plain teeth, that still retains the original
factory filling with original angles, the teeth have a combined angle of 38 degrees,
it still requires a full cleaning I have only cleaned a small section for this thread.

Also there are a couple of files to show how with a proper file a better job can be
achieved.

Two are nos examples of cant files one an 8" the other an 10", the smaller is a new
Bahco 6" flat diamond file.

I feel using this type of file and keeping these angles would have been too much for the
average man of the house to master.

Over to you.

Graham.

Originally Posted by macg

Paul, I love the 4 brass backed back saws that just happened to be on the bench when you photographed your two man saw.

Graham.

Graham

Sometimes I deliberately plan something like that for "background", but they were there because I have no other place to store them until I have finished a saw till for the "users."

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

Graham

Sometimes I deliberately plan something like that for "background", but they were there because I have no other place to store them until I have finished a saw till for the "users."

Regards
Paul

Also shows what sneaky members we are all.
And can’t keep our focus on the main subject.
I of course would never ever raise my self too such standards.

Cheers Matt.

Originally Posted by macg

Hi Matt,

I have a few of this type of saw, with various tooth patterns, but this is all about the plain or peg tooth pattern.

From the reading and research I've done I offer the following as my two bobs worth to the mix.

Back when houses needed a lot of fire wood for not only heating but also for cooking and heating water for washing
these two man saws were a very common item in most house holds, and the plain tooth would have been one of the
easier types to maintain by the average man of the house, which is why today we see examples like Matts and Pauls
show up with, wonky teeth of various shape, size, angle and set.

If a cant saw file was not available, an ordinary mill file could and more often would be used, but after being 'sharpened' several
times the gullets would become enlarged and the tooth angles would also alter, to the point that it would be a real pain in the ar..e
to use and the saw would get put away in blistered disgust, hoping to never to be seen again.

The example in the pictures below is one I picked up several years ago, it is a 48" 2 man saw with two and a half ppi plain teeth,
one handle bracket was always fixed with rivets the other with bolts and wing nuts, so if the saw was ever used for felling a tree
and it was not able to be backed out of the cut the handle could be removed and the saw pulled out through the side of the cut.

It has not had a lot of use or been sharpened too much but because a flat mill file was used the teeth have lost their original edge,
the gullets are starting to become enlarged and the combined angle is now 43 degrees.

Getting back to your saw Matt, it is a pity about the broken teeth, could have happened when being set, the reference to Collingwood
went right over my head, the saw has cleaned up okay, I reckon I've seen that etch somewhere before, I will see if I can find it.

Paul, I love the 4 brass backed back saws that just happened to be on the bench when you photographed your two man saw.

Graham.

Thanks Graham

You do bring up a relivant point, not everyone even back a hundred years was able or could sharpen a saw.
Paul is sending a file to try on the saw which I’ve promised him I will.
So I’m half committed to at least getting the saw hopefully sharp.
Tho Paul did ask, weather I would be turning into a lumber jack.
But I’m happy staying a biblical Matt[emoji849].

My reference to Collingwood supporters was,
That most AFL Collingwood supports are rumoured to be missing teeth due to getting a little to excited at football games with other supporters [emoji57][emoji57].

Cheers Matt.
And thank you very much for all the great pics.

Matt,

being a lumber jack in the true sense would not be such a bad thing,

what would be bad is if you were to be a lumber sexual!!!

go to youtube and search, you'll be surprised.

Graham

Just a little update.

Mr very nice gentleman AKA Bushmiller

Sent these down plus a couple of very nice pieces of timber.
To be made into saw handles before the turn of century[emoji849].



So now I have no excuse to not get the Cross Cut saw in order.

It will take a little bit but should possibly be done before then end of the year.
I’m a little hesitant to start yet another project before finishing a little back saw build I’m working on at present.
Given the size of the cross cut saw and my lack of time at present.
And also considering I’ve never ever tackled an saw this big period. I would prefer to start and finish the saw in one fowl swoop hopefully or it will never get done[emoji849].
Stay tuned

Cheers Matt.